Was James Toney the most naturally talented middleweight ever?

That was Bill Miller.

 

Awesome and unique point of view and you did a he'll of a job articulating it. Every single day there are hundreds of posts and threads on here that are pure trolling or utter rubbish. On the really bad days for boxing discussion, I'm sure plenty of good posters ask themselves what it is they were doing here and can't come up with an answer right away, but it's unique points of view and good posts like yours that compel us to soldier on through the shitty times because subconsciously our brain knows sooner or later we will read something that would make an entire weeks worth of rubbish worth it just to stumble upon the paydirt we were here looking for.

 

The kind words are much appreciated bro. I'm just happy I can chip in with something worthwhile every now and again. Cheers

 

He’s so hot and cold....was always busy. Sometimes struggled against journeymen, sometimes looked untouchable at elite level.

Weird talent was Toney. Great chin for sure

 

True enough! The thing is, Toney used skill and ring smarts to win. The steroids probably helped with stamina, but he still was an excellent technical fighter without the roids. What a shame! Like having doo doo streaks in satin underwear.

 

RJJ.
If we are going with natural talent.
And it isn't even close.

 

Probably some bum we've never heard of was "the most talented".

 

He had a natural glass jaw, so he can't be the most gifted.
If u look closely, arthur abraham was the more natural fighter.

 

Given he deserved losses to Dave Tiberi and a Mike McCallum who was some 12 years older....NO. Hell No.

 

Natural talent doesn't always come out on top. I know, as I was once introduced at a show by, at the time, my country's greatest jazz critic and conoisseur as the most promising young jazz drummer of that era in Belgium... And yes, I played well and had a lot of natural ability on a technical and also creative level, but as time went by and I wasn't the greatest talent when it came to practicing, a lot of players that initially were miles behind me, took my spot as "the man" by virtue of their work (practice) ethic. 25 years later, they're still doing their thing, living their dream, while I can only reminisce about what could have been

And thus I am convinced through my own experiences that the biggest natural talent any athlete, musician or whatever else can have, is the ability to make the sacrifices, put in the hours, persevere, etc...together with, but less important...a natural aptitude for the activity you're pursuing. I'm not too sure Toney ranks highest amongst other MW's on that scale

 

Didn't Manny Stewart say Toney was the most naturally talented fighter he trained, I think Roach said the same thing.

 

Natural talent.

Having a good chin is not a talent.

 

Splitting hairs here but I see a difference between naturally talented and naturally gifted.

RJJ is the most naturally gifted fighter in the modern age. His blend of explosive speed and power was stupendous. His coordination was immeasurable as well.

Toney very well have been the most gifted. Can't say it any better than he said it himself - he didn't learn to fight, he was born knowing it. His masterful feel for angles, his slipperiness, and sense of timing and distance was all just surreal.

Then you blend that with his trainer...

Bill Miller was born to a boxing family. It was in his blood. He started out in the 1930's and imparted decades worth of golden era knowledge on Toney. Trainers like that don't exist anymore. Those lessons have been lost to the ages.

 

No Roy was. But JT has the best style, and the best temperament