Was Jeffries/Fitzsimmons II fixed?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Seamus, May 25, 2018.


  1. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Was the result a foregone conclusion if Fitz couldn't finish Jim inside 8?

    "A communication sent to Mayor Schmitz before the fight, to be opened after it was ended, stated the writer had been informed Jeffries was to win in the eighth round, which he did. The mayor has stated that if the charge that the contest was a prearranged affair cannot be disproved, he will be compelled to prohibit such exhibitions hereafter."

    "Mayor Schmitz has given out the following for publiclication:
    'From the information I have received, I am forced to believe that this exhibition is no better than the previous ones we have had, namely, the Jeffries-Ruhlin and Gans-McFadden and others, and it will do much toward discouraging the sport in this city.'
    E.E. Schmitz"

    According to ringside reports, Fitz all but stopped his attack in the 8th and spoke to Jeffries. Chronicle Sporting Editor Naughton "says that Fitzsimmons' words just before the knockout were, "Now, hit me."
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    No, in a word.

    There was a lot of speculation that this fight would be fixed, even before it took place.

    It is striking in this regard.

    The sequence of events in the fight, is about as unlikely to be staged as you can get!
     
  3. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Didn't FItz wrap his hand in electrical tape just to really **** up Jeffries? Doesn't sound like the actions of a guy taking a dive.
     
  4. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Maybe Fitz got 8 rounds to do his best and "put on a show"... and then was told to lay down. According to the round by rounds, he just stopped fighting, said something and fell down. And yes, I'm pretty much playing Devil's Advocate but I ran across a bunch of these articles today.
     
  5. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Hard to see Jeffries agreeing to such a hellish degree of facial damage for a fix.

    According to reports, he looked at the end like he had fallen face first into a hay mower.

    There was really a fierce hatred of boxing as a sport by many and part of the anti-boxing vehemence was that nearly every fight was a fix, no matter how unlikely. The basic argument is that boxing then was like modern pro-wrestling. Everything was arranged. So why support a fake sport? Some newspaper or other published a "fix" claim for about every fight.

    As for the letter. How many letters were there and how many rounds were predicted for the knockout? This is the way most psychics work. It goes like this. Just keep predicting this or that will happen this year. Sooner or later a prediction will come through, and impress some, who never find out that this was your only accurate guess out of the many you made.
     
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  6. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The way I would do it with the letters is to send out a number, each one to a different official. One to the governor. One to the mayor. One of the legislative majority leader, and probably minority leader. One to the chief of police. One to each senator and a congressman or two. Etc. Each letter predicts a different round. So every round is covered from let's say the 1st through the 12th.

    And keep a list of which round was predicted in the letter sent to each official. When the KO occurs, get out the rumor that official X received a letter predicting the round of the knockout. If you are a newspaper, or work for a newspaper, that part should be pretty easy.

    The official's office will then have to admit publicly that yes, he did receive a letter predicting the exact round of the KO. Voila. You have proven a fix.

    And if you are a newspaper, you have a scandal to use to sell more papers for a few days or weeks. And you can also demand an investigation in editorials, and wax eloquent about the corruption of it all. There is nothing like having the moral high ground.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
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  7. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  8. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    thanks for printing this.

    Jeff seems to have been bleeding from the mouth, nose, cheek, and from cuts over both eyes at one time or another off this description.

    Clumsy writing makes it appear Peter Jackson was at the fight. I believe he was already dead.
     
  9. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    And the NYT description states that Fitz stopped to say something to Jeffries. The editor of San Francisco Chronicle who was at ringside, reports that said, "Now, hit me."
     
  10. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Isn't it grand that the crowd was silent enough for him to hear what Fitz was saying. Most of the time it would be difficult to hear anything said in the ring with thousands of howling fans behind you.

    This quote might give us a good idea which paper sent out the letter(s).
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
  11. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Touche.
     
  12. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    This is a trivial point but I'd be very surprised if what we now call electrical tape existed at the time.
     
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  13. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The "electrical tape" description referred to in the Jefferies vs Fitz #2 fight:

    From the 3M site:
    "3M created it, and saved electricians from the weak, corrosive and rot-prone tape of yore, which was made of tar-coated cotton with a vulcanized rubber adhesive."


    "What would you do if there was no vinyl electrical tape?

    If you’re an electrician or a contractor, life without this sticky companion might sound like a nightmare, but for those living just 100 short years ago it was a reality, because electrical tape simply didn’t exist.

    In fact, the vinyl electrical tape that we all know and love came into existence more than 70 years ago, when 3M inventors Snell, Oace, and Eastwold created it and saved electricians from the weak, corrosive and rot-prone tape of yore, which was made of tar-coated cotton with a vulcanized rubber adhesive.

    Learn more about the evolution of electrical tape with the timeline below."
    https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/electri...tenance-us/resources/electrical-tape-history/
     
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  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    There are too many contradictory accounts of how the fight ended, for any of them to really be credible.

    Whatever the case, Fitzsimmons would not have thrown the fight by beating Jeffries to an unrecognizable pulp for eight rounds, and then laying down.

    That narrative would be far too complex to stage manage effectively.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
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  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Jeffries carefully examined Fitz's hands in the ring before they gloved up.I've worn electrical tape over wraps it feel like a brick when you grasp it ,Jeffries would have immediately known Fitz was wearing it.
    People don't seem to grasp how hard Fitz hit, he killed two men in the ring, half killed Ruhlin and beat Jeffries face into a pulp.In the 8th rd , his hands smashed to bits, Fitz dropped them to his side, took a step towards Jeffries and said something to him,Jeffries advanced and landed on him twice dropping him to the floor where he was counted out.
    Some ringsiders swore they heard Fitz say to Jeffries,"hit me Jeff, hit me now and get it over," this was interpreted as the action of man whose hands were now useless so that he could no longer punch .Fitz said what he actually asked Jeff to," keep away".
    It was remarked that the noise from the crowd was terrific so how anyone could hear what was said is problematic.
    Fitzsimmons complained bitterly when rumours of a fix were circulated.He said he fought the best he possibly could and that he was disgusted that such tales were being broadcast.
    The state of Jeffries face after the fight is surely emphatic proof that it was on the level.