Was Jimmy Britt the legitimate Lightweight champion at any point?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bujia, Jan 23, 2021.


  1. Bujia

    Bujia Well-Known Member Full Member

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    If you’re unfamiliar with the circumstances of his claim, it goes a little somethin’ like this:

    Britt was beating the hell out of a weight drained Joe Gans in their first meeting for the latter’s Lightweight crown. Unfortunately, he got a little carried away after knocking Gans to the canvas for the 4th or 5th time and struck him on the down. Thus, he was DQ’d. If you think it was a harsh call, I should also mention that he’d done the same thing twice already when Gans was on the ground. Oh, and after the DQ he assaulted the referee.

    Afterwards, Britt and his people claimed the title for themselves and some people agreed with them. They fought again for the title (with Gans having made 2-3 further official title defenses in between these two fights) 3 years later and Gans handled him before Britt broke his wrist and quit. Gans again retained his title.

    For further reading, there’s an excellent article below. I may have omitted some elements. Artistic license and all that.

    https://classicboxingsociety.blogspot.com/2014/12/the-confusing-joe-gans-v-jimmy-britt.html?m=1
     
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  2. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    What a terrible and misleading summary.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Didn't he take the title against Nelson? After that?
     
  4. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    He beat Battling Nelson, then after that the English champion Jabez White, with some recognising either of those fights as being for the vacant championship
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
  5. Bujia

    Bujia Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The White title, yes. The World title still belonged to Gans. Some newspapermen jumped on Britt’s side and declared the title vacant because they said Gans couldn’t make the weight and therefore could no longer be taken seriously. That was where Britt’s claim originated. Gans himself never vacated the title.
     
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  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, there was a ridiculous 10 month period where he didn't make the lightweight limit and contested the 147lb title. He next made "lightweight" when the weight limit was 135lbs, I think.

    On the other hand, he was 138lbs, I believe, against Turner and that was advertised as lightweight title in some spots.

    @Senya13
     
  7. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Gans' comments post fight.

    The San Francisco Call- 01 Nov 1904 (page 4)

    I was too weak to do myself justice. After I went to my corner in the second round I knew it. I would like to fight Britt again, but I would not do it at 133 pounds ringside. It is the first time I did it in my life. I will fight Britt at 133 pounds weigh in at 3 o'clock, or 135 pounds ringside. Then I could rough it with him. Britt is very strong, but not as fast as people think. He has a good punch. He hit me in the stomach. I did not drop to avoid punishment;the punches in the stomach made me go down. He fouled me twice and the referee had to give me the decision. Britt is a good boy and is a determined fighter. There was no steam in my punched. His blows did not make me groggy, but my own weakness told on me. The hard work I did to reduce my weight told on me. When I went into the ring I felt I could beat any man. After the second round I knew I was in, as the pace and blows toold on me. Britt would have won had it continued.—Interview with Gans.
     
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  8. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    By the standards of that era, we can look up post-fight local reports, plus daily or weekly (usually on Saturday or Sunday) write-ups by well-known sporting writers, what they thought, plus the write-ups before/after next fights of both fighters. Let's say, there were different opinions after this fight, I'm not ready to give a count of how many of them still considered Gans the champion and who didn't.
     
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    That bad?

    Either or then.
     
  10. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What else did you expect? It was a matter of claiming the title and some agreeing with that claim and others disagreeing. We can go back to John L., was he the champion of the world or of America only? Then you can argue what was the weight limit (and the time of the weighing-in) you had to make to be considered lightweight. When somebody is claiming Britt is the best fighter at 133 pounds and at the same time comments that Gans can't make that weight, do they call Britt the lightweight champion of the world? It's a matter of interpretation.
     
  11. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Another example, I suppose many people here have read Adam Pollack's bio of Jeffries. Adam had to quote a lot of post-fight write-ups regarding the Butte bout with Jack Munroe, to point out Jeffries had held his claim of world heavyweight champion, despite the referee giving decision to Munroe. Those exhibition bouts could be rather tricky, especially when you had the condition that you had to knock your opponent out within certain number of rounds.