Was John L Sullivan The Mike Tyson Of His Day?

According to his record on Cyberboxingzone, that isn't accurate.

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/sully.htm

 

That is the one. Very good work, very well researched.

 

Cyber Boxing Zone is a great resource, but I wouldn't take it over the primary source material in Pollack's two biographies.

 

Tyson fought four World Champions, not fifteen. Holmes, Spinks, Holyfield, Lewis. It is not a nit pick to make the distinction between real champion & the alphabet soup crew.

At most, you could say it’s a total of five, if you want to include Douglas.

 

I would count Tucker too because he beat Buster Douglas to win his alphabet belt and really stands out among the alphabet soup crew.

But yeah 15 is certainly not accurate.

 

I think that’s a reasonable comparison. Sullivan was viewed as the man to be beat and most likely feared in his time. Of course world wide media coverage wasn’t exactly what it was by Mike Tyson’s time but I think the principle of the idea stands

 

So the original Tyson was an Irish man...Love it!

 

This is not overly respectful of the great man but it is funny. If you’re serious then I see your points but I disagree. Lol.

 

Tucker won a vacant belt (Michael Spinks took a more lucrative fight with Gerry Cooney and gave up the IBF belt … in part because he wasn’t going to sign on to be part of a Don King-run tournament when he could make more money as lineal champ and face the winner of that tournament with negotiating power) and lost it in his next fight.

I fail to see what makes him a ‘cut above’ any other alphabet champ … he didn’t even beat a sitting champ to win his title.

 

Hi buddy.
Sort of agree about the comparison, mind you little ole Charlie Mitchell all 150 lbs of him showed no fear of Sullivan , before, during, or after their 39 round draw, spitting bile at the great man most of the contest, add that John L was dumped on to the ground in the first by the opponent he out weighed by 50lb, is not what you would expect, bearing in mind his rep at that time, also the 45/75 rounds they fought were a mistaken anomaly, as we all know the rounds came to an end when 1 fighter hit the dirt , that said all the old timers make great reading, and there is a place for them in the annual's of our sport, for sure.
stay safe mr magoo, chat soon.

 

Sullivan, Dempsey and Tyson are a lineage of aggressive heavyweights who'd come out hard and fast with two quick, powerful hands, and consequently not only were sensations with the sporting public and but also had a big general social/cultural presence. When heavyweights of the Sullivan/Dempsey/Tyson ilk come along and have spectators edge-of-the-seat, breath bated, hearts beating from the opening bell, it's as though The Guy the worlds been waiting for for decades has finally appeared.

 

Tyson did too. He learned you can pretty much get away with being a pothead and still be healthy, but that alcohol and cocaine will wreck everything.

If anything, Tyson is a living example of why weed should be legal. Look at his life on alcohol and cocaine -- he ruined everything, his career, personal life, his health, etc. Then look at his life when he traded in the abuse of those two for the abuse of weed -- rebuilt his public image, rebuilt his financial situation, has a successful marriage, seems in amazing shape, etc. Would he be better off being sober? Of course. But if you have a compulsion you can't beat, he shows it's sure as hell better to go with the weed.

 

1)Holmes having lost the belt to Spinks making his IBF belt more valuable
2)Tucker beating a future lineal champion while being undefeated
3)Going the distance with Tyson
4)Not losing again for another 6 years and going the distance with Lennox Lewis

So I believe calling him the clear cut king of the 80s "alphabet soup gang" is a very fair assessment. Witherspoon would be 2nd and did not fight Tyson.

 

For me you can’t be a king of anything with zero successful title defenses of a vacant belt. Ken Norton wasn’t the king of the 1970s heavyweights, lol.

He didn’t beat many fighters of note in his career, especially in or near their primes.

Of his six years undefeated, he took two of them off completely and fought once in another. Most of his wins (highighted by beating Orlin Norris, by far the best he faced during his ‘six-year undefeated run’) were against people like Dino Homsey and Mike Rouse, lol. That’s not even treading water.

The guys he beat between losing to Tyson and Lewis had 67 combined losses, haha.

You also put a heck of a lot more stock in ‘went the distance’ in losing efforts than I do — Mitch Green and James Smith went the distance with prime Tyson, Lennox didn’t knock out everyone either.

He was never the king of the 1980s alphabet guys. His resume absolutely doesn’t support it. That era doesn’t have a king, but if it did it would more likely be Mike Weaver or Pinklon Thomas imo.

I will grant that he was pretty tall.

 

There were lots of variables in his day, including the fact that the sport was illegal in many places.