Was Johnson Close to Defeat in the Flynn Rematch ...

apart from the phrase 'ju jitsu style clinching', which would have to be explained in the context of a standing fight, I agree.

 

I've watched that bout since 1974 via 8 mm film. Now it's easier just pulling it up on YouTube. Either way all I've ever seen was a one sided thrashing. Flynn was cut to ribbons. Aside from body punches which Johnson masterfully neutralized by controlling Flynns balance I never saw a significant punch landed to Johnson's head. To me Johnson appeared in good condition. Certainly not grossly out of shape by any means.

 

Johnson was landing 10+ jab combos that fight

 

Yes very true. Johnson jabbed more in this bout than any other that I have seen. Playing with his opponent.

 

I thought it a comfortable win for Johnson, and I'm not aware of the quote.Johnson received $31,000 for that fight ,which sure beats fighting Langford for $6000. Flynn trained for a dirty fight, his trainer Tommy Ryan quit his camp in disgust after watching him practice those billy- goat tactics on novices.

 

Flynn was either on the verge of victory when he lost his cool and got himself disqualified or hopelessly outclassed from start to finish and fouled out deliberately. They can't both be true and it just goes to show you can't believe everything you read!

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn86076142/1912-07-05/ed-1/seq-1/
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn86076142/1912-07-05/ed-1/seq-4/

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85066387/1912-07-05/ed-1/seq-12/

 

I believe the diligent research that Adam Pollack put in to
produce his 2 volumes of biography on Jack Johnson.

 

Johnson certainly doesn't look on the verge of defeat in the film.

At the risk of wandering off topic, I don't think this was strictly a disqualification, in the same way that Johnson's win over Burns doesn't count as a tko. The police stopped the fight and the referee gave Johnson the decision.

 

Flynn was NOT on the verge of victory. He was landing nothing on Johnson at any time in the bout.

 

Flynn wasn't skilled and had already been KO'd 11 times prior to somehow getting a title shot with Johnson at the age of 32.

In his next 7 fights post-Johnson in 1912, Flynn lost 5 times, drew once and won once. He started his career as a middle. He was short, had a very short reach, and skills below the garden variety tough man.

There is no way that Flynn would be ranked in the top 75 today. This was a joke of a title fight and the fans knew it. Promoter Jack Curley said: "I stand to lose about $15,000 of my own money."

Johnson accepted $21,000.

So now Johnson is saying he was close to defeat? Hard to believe, but you never know. Flynn for all his shortcoming did have some power.

Johnson was 212 pounds here, hardly overweight from his last fight. No excuses.

The fight is comical. Johnson holds Flynn's head, and Flynn flails away with his short arms missing him. Now I know where looney tunes got their idea.

Flynn does heat butt a few times on film, but it doesn't seem to bother Johnson much. If it did you'd think Johnson would try to finish him or foul back himself. Technically the way Johnson clinches and hits can be viewed as a foul by the rules.

You can see Flynn on film in another fight. Sam Langford knocks him out cold.

 

Diligent research for sure, but when it comes to picking what's he's going to write, stuff like Johnson had a 77" reach is printed. That's a real reach, pun intended. Johnson was measured at 74" and below quite a few times.

Sometimes good historians pick the data they like, even when the majority of sources suggest otherwise. I'd like to Pollack comment on this fight. If Johnson was indeed in some trouble had the fight went several more rounds, he's even more suspect that I think.

Getting TKO'd by GunBoat Smith in an exhibition match in 1909, floored by Ketchel in a title fight, outBoxed by primary sources in a 6 rounder by O'Brien, and seemingly in serious trouble in a 10 round draw with Battling Johnson is very suspect for a fighter viewed as an all-time great.

 

Flynn wasn't disqualified. And, indeed, there were several well-respected reporters who were not sure who would have won had the bout been allowed to continue.