Was Johnson Close to Defeat in the Flynn Rematch ...

You keep saying Johnson was exhausted and in poor shape. Beyond what a couple of hopeful white reporters said what in that film gives you the impression that Johnson was exhausted, on the verge of getting worn down, etc? Use your eyes, not ringside reports which arent even necessary in this case. How was the final round of that fight any different than the earlier rounds? How was Flynn any stronger or in any better shape to win than Johnson after all the punishment he had taken and after Johnson having extended himself very little in dishing it out? Sorry, but when you foul out to save face you arent on the verge of winning.

You can pretend all you want that what he did to a green Dempsey is the same as doing that to a prime Dempsey and somehow the same as beating Johnson, or that getting knocked out in the 15th round by the same Tommy Burns that Johnson toyed with is somehow indicative of being able to beat Johnson but more discerning individuals will understand those are very different things and much lesser accomplishments.

 

I have to say this post says it all. What on anyone's screen leads them to believe that:
1.Johnson was fading
2.Flynn was getting stronger .
???????

I have a great regard for H.E. as a poster,but on this occasion I must fundamentally disagree with his premise.

 

It's just ridiculous and I do not understand where the idea comes from. At no time in that bout does Johnson appear in any stress whatsoever. Complete walk in the park, relaxed and very typical Johnson beat down.

 

There is always lots of criticism of johnson for coming into so many fights out of shape. but when i think about it, i dont think there was another champion ever, who was capable of beating top contenders despite coming in out of shape. Fitz did it against jeffries and lost. Dempsey slipped a bit against Tunney and didnt win a round. Louis, perhaps the best bet was KOd by schmelling and never failed to train again. Tyson tried against Douglas and learned the hard way. Douglas didnt train for Holyfield and didnt even make it close. Spinks allowed an ancient Ali to reverse things. An out of shape Johnson beat Jack O Brien, Jim Flynn, and a couple of others. Even after Willard, he stayed undefeated for about 10 years through multiple retirements. I cant think of anyone else who did that to good contenders. Or were capable of doing that to decent contenders. Perhaps that puts into context just how great Jack Johnson really was.

 

I'm dead

 

Flynn definitely landed some hard punches on Johnson. He was also coming in with a lot of explosive power at times. Johnson had a real challenge on his hands. But overall, Jack handled him. He was 5 times more effective with his punches than Jim was. His distance control was perfect. Jab, perfect.

He did take liberties with his clinches at times. Trapping Jims arms. But from the footage on youtube, it's hard to tell who initiated what. But Flynns went overboard when he jumped at Johnsons head over and over and over again. He lost his mind.

The writers who say they are equally to blame are being disingenuous.

 

Good post!

 

Except Johnson did not beat the extremely shopworn lightheavy OBrien who was at the very end of his run.

 

I absolutely agree.

And based on such obvious distortions in press reports compared to fight such as this that WE CAN SEE, I'm consistent in my skepticism regarding reports of fights WE CANNOT SEE. As you know. And I've argued with you several times on this issue.
Newspaper reports, however numerous and however similar in their version of events, can sometimes be B.S.

 

Find and read full reports. I quoted small portions from them that were relevant to the question being asked.

 

Well he certainly didnt lose to him, did he?

 

I've read dozens of accounts of this bout over the years. The predominant manner in which this bout is described is a one sided slaughter. If one is true to historical accuracy the vast and predominant manner in which the bout is described (which by the way is what one sees when watching the bout) is how the bout should be called. The idea Johnson was winded is ludicrous.....he is an athlete fighting a major bout over rounds so of course he is going to sweat and breath heavy. There are no signs whatsoever that Johnson was in any distress. Somebody watch the fight for Gods sake.

 

Dozens of primary source accounts of this bout? Or dozens of accounts written by people who didn't see the fight first hand and who wrote about it many decades after it had taken place?