Was Julio Cesar Chavez "shot" at the time of his 1st fight with De La Hoya?

Chavez was on the decline, but not shot.

For what it's worth, I was skimming thru the article in The Ring which is a passage from DLH's autobio and he said that "age 33, Chavez was living off his reputation and his body was worn down from 100 fights and hard living".

 

sorry your right. he had been a pro for 13 years though he was favoured by many to win

 

The thread going 3 pages long, and sadly in a section where there's supposed to be informed posters, not a single mention that the way the first Chavez-DLH fight unfolded....the unfolding of the fight was heavily influenced by Chavez having a pre-existing cut going in....
....it opens up with the first jab landed of the night, and the flow of blood effecting Chavez' vision, takes off after then.


My opinion is that Chavez was in a state of decline, but far from shot in that first DLH fight....but the fight becomes inconclusive as most fights stopped on due to early cuts.

First jab landed on the night and Chavez is already heavily bleeding......and there are morons in this forum that would call that DLH victory a dominant one!:rofl :rofl :nut

Over 2 years later at a time where Chavez is indeed closer to shot, fighting at a weight Chavez has no business in.....Chavez gives a better account of himself....goodness, I wonder why???:huh

 

De La Hoya fought differently in the rematch. He traded more and gave Chavez more opportunities, probably because of the size advantage he had (he weighed like 161-162 on fight night) over someone who never really belonged above 140.

Even without the cut, which I'm sure was pre-existing, I can't see that version of Chavez beating DLH or making it that close.

Late 80s Chavez, particularly the animal that ravaged El Chapo, that's a different story.

 

It does'nt matter what anyone thinks would have happened......the fact is that the cut played a major role in the unfolding of the fight.

Going in, the consensus was that Chavez would have to take some punishment early on against the faster DLH, and hope to take the still very green DLH into uncharted waters for him.
The cut, prevented Chavez from executing his gameplan which was to ride low in the early going and finish strong late (which was always a Chavez trademark)

Once the cut opened up, Chavez had no choice but to attempt to fight a punchers fight (which Chavez never was) and try to get DLH out of there early.
What we essentially had was Chavez attempting to be Mike Tyson vs DLH.....going for an early KO knowing that there is blood pouring and its getting worse.
Thats just not a winning fight plan if you're Chavez, but he had no choice but to attempt it, knowing the flow of blood down to his eyes was'nt going to get any better.

Its elementary, but for some reason people chose to ignore facts.

 

Chavez was hesitant during the first 3 rounds. And your not going to tell me otherwise. After De La Hoya cut him halfway through the first round with an up-jab, he was thrown off his gameplan. But he fought totally different to how you describe right after the cut. He was actually tame and reserved. For the rest of the round and the 2nd and 3rd rounds he was backed up and picked apart. Only during the start of the 4th round did Chavez start to take chances and attack aggressively for a sustained period of time. And once he opened up with heavy artillery that was the end of him as De La Hoya moved through the gears himself.

 

Well you have not read the thread then; I mentioned the cut on the first page.

 

Sorry I missed your post T.......

But to clarify, my understanding was that Chavez had been slightly cut sparring a couple of weeks before the fight......after the fact it was explained by Chavez that there was concern whether to go on with the fight, but Don King had put pressure on them that there were too deep in the promotion to postpone the fight.......
.....in any regards, they were concerned, but thought they would be OK and the cut would heal, as it was only on the surface.

.....lo and behold, just a couple of days before fightnight, Chavez was on a Latino television show being interviewed......kind of like the Tonight show, but only in spanish......Chavez had one of his sons on his lap while he was interviewed on this show.....Chavez' son made a sudden move with his head, and hit Chavez right on the tender spot where he had been cut.....Chavez immediately got a hold of some tissue and began to wipe on the area that had been tenderized by his sons butt......apparently the butt was severe enough that it drew a small little trace of blood......

You're right Tbooze, the fight should have been postponed, but apparently whether it be Chavez or Don King's pressure, they felt an obligation to fight with so much money already invested in the promotion.
Those were the words of JC Chavez in the day or so after the fight.
My guess is that Don King talked them into fighting.

The American media and DLH himself accused Chavez of being unsportmanlike, and not being able to take defeat like a man with his excuses that he was cut beforehand......the spanish stations here in Los Angeles were the only ones who reported the truth of the matter about there really being a pre-existing cut....and then came out with video evidence of Chavez' son on that show accidentally butting him.

I feel like you Tbooze, as a Chavez fan, I felt cheated that Chavez did'nt go into the fight fully healed from that cut.


.....and Robbi, anytime Chavez attempted to get on the inside in his range in those early rounds, he found himself wiping blood from his vision site.
Chavez could never get into his rhythm, because DLH's jab was targeting that cut.
....with a parry'er like Chavez, you recieve alot of deflected shots in the the facial area, and that is'nt good when you're already cut up.
......from Chavez' own accounts afterward, he was'nt going to be able to up the tempo at his leisure and begin to set traps, because his vision was'nt going to let him.....so he had to step on the accelerator then and now in that 4th round, and hope to catch DLH with something.
....it just was'nt the Chavez way to do things, but he had no choice on the matter. Chavez stepped on the gas in that 4th round while DLH was still relatively fresh and fast, and he ate punches that furthered opened up his cut.....which then resulted in the cuts stoppage.


What unfolded with DLH afterward, is only part of the reason why I have a dislike for him.

Chavez during the post fight interview said, "It was'nt the kids fault of course (speaking of DLH) but I dont feel like he beat me tonight, I had already been cut in sparring, I was hoping it would'nt be an issue tonight, but when it opened up, It prevented me unfolding my gameplan which was to go from less to more.

I think most fighters in Chavez position would have said something along those lines......but then DLH made a big stink about Chavez not being able to give him full credit for his victory.
DLH wanted Chavez to say that DLH was the better fighter, and that just was'nt going to happen after that way that fight unfolded.

DLH went as far as to call Chavez less than a man.

The bafoon which is DLH even said he'd never grant Chavez a rematch until he accepted that he legitly was defeated......
We all know of the validity of DLH promises.....he also said he would'nt give Fernando Vargas the benefit of a payday......and both times, when he saw the window of shot fighters before him.....he invites both fighters in for paydays!:rofl :rofl

I just dont have respect for characters like DLH!

 

Divac, you said in your previous post that "Once the cut opened up, Chavez had no choice but to attempt to fight a punchers fight (which Chavez never was) and try to get DLH out of there early" He did not try to get De La Hoya out there early. Only during the 4th round did he go for broke and throw all his eggs into one basket. He was extremely cautious to say the least up until the start of the 4th round. And once the cut opened up it clearly effected his vision and gameplan as you said. "Once the cut opened up, Chavez had no choice but to attempt to fight a punchers fight" What your essentially saying is that right after the cut opened up Chavez fought in a 'Tyson like' fashion. Nonsense. The fact of the matter is that after the cut opened it restricted Chavez from being aggressive. Instead his concentration was effected, he was backed up by the jab, and the blood effected his vision which made his punch output drop.


Once the cut opened up, Chavez had no choice but to attempt to fight a punchers fight (which Chavez never was) and try to get DLH out of there early.

What your saying here is "once the cut opened up" he fought a punchers fight. The only time Chavez tried to get De La Hoya out there early was the start of the 4th round, not right after the cut opened up.

 

Skillwise he was on the decline, Mentally he was shot. By then Chavez was believing his own hype, surrounded by yesmen. Partying all night, not training correctly, finding excuses instead of fixing problems. Two years later he attempted to fix these problems in the rematch, but by then physically he WAS shot...

 

Was Chavez shot?

Close enough I'd say. Not there yet, but ring wars, addictions, injuries, (in particular a back injury suffered in the early 90s that helped slow him down) and constantly wrangling with Don King among other things had certainly taking their toll. Also, his performance in the ring faded noticeably after the Whitaker draw, the bouts with Randall alone show that.

I'd compare it to watching someone drinking hard, pounding shot after shot. There comes a certain point where he's still keeping himself upright and such, but you know there's only one way his night is going to end. Julio's career was just about at that point, if not a little further into it. (Really, was there much of any point carrying on after getting those result with Whitaker and Randall so close together except to try to get to 100 wins?)

 

Ok Robbi, dont get so technical on the matter of what I exactly said.....

.....my point is that fighting the way Chavez would normally fight, was'nt going to work as blood was streaming down to his eye, effecting his vision.

.....no, Chavez didnt go bonkers and turn into a madman trying to take DLH out as soon as the cut happened, but the 4th round is still an early round......which is what I referred to earlier.

Bottom line, whether anybody thinks Chavez was doomed no matter a cut or not......the cut did actually have a major impact on the fight!
.....the battle plan or game plan went out the window once the cut poured blood!

 

Yep.

 

Chavez was wel past his prime when he faced De La Hoya in 1996. He was 34 by then, and had nearly 100 bouts by then. Also Chavez was at 140 pounds for this bout. His best years in his prime were at 130 and 135.