Was Louis more shot against Marciano than Tyson was against Lewis?

Yes, in my opinion much more shot than Tyson was. But, even a washed up, broken down version of the Brown Bomber was a force to be reckoned with. Look at the string of victories he had on his comeback.

 

Yeah I think with Louis, there was just no way he could have won that fight. He did all the right things, but just couldn't keep up with a prime Marciano. Perhaps Tyson could have fought better against Lewis though.

 

Both Tyson and Louis were unquestionably years away from being the best versions of each other.

Joe Louis always had sad eyes and a weary expression at the best of times but now he had a bald spot and the black and white film gives Joe the appearance of being grey and ill looking. In truth he was strong and muscular veteran contender who had nine very good wins, eight that year since his loss to Charles.

By comparison Tyson was having his first fight in eight months and had been fighting just twice a year before that since his last loss.

Joe Louis's comeback is very underrated. Of course he is not the brown bomber anymore but these are good wins comparable with any of the best contenders. The second Brion fight shows a lot of improvement from the first one, knockout of Savold is good. Knocking down Agramante is impressive too. These were live fringe guys. Louis even outboxed Jimmy Bivins in his most recent fight and jimmy had good wins left in him after that

 

For what it's worth Louis was a 7-5 favorite going in to the fight. I wonder how much of that was a reflection of the betting action versus what the guys in the know believed.

Louis weighed in 213 1/2, 10 lbs more than he did against Bivins . Why the difference?


My suspicion is Louis had lost more but he much more to lose.

 

I've read somewhere and tried to find the article unsuccessfully about bomber Joe only having about 25% use of his right hand against Marciano.
Whether it was like that during the rest of his comeback, I don't know.
Against Lewis, Tyson walked straight without the trade mark head and feet movement of his prime.
Both were shot

 

Louis was one fight away from a title shot. The new Champion was his pal Jersey Joe Walcott and joe was the last guy to knockout the new champion.

On reflection it looks like old Louis was just dug up to pad Rockys record but that's not how it was at the time. Shot or not, come back Louis' record since losing to Charles was better than anything Marciano had done until that point.

 

But his power had evaporated ,he did not have his right hand any more.

 

Louis still had a right hand. He put Agramante over with it just months earlier. In fact Louis was decking guys more often than Mike Tyson was before the Lennox fight seeing as Tyson had not fought for eight months.

I will concede that Louis threw less right hands in his comeback, but no more so than any other veteran fighter. Adjustments are made to suit the tools the fighter has left. Veterans tend to wait and be as efficient over the round as possible. It dosnt pay for them to lead two handed attacks and fire off combinations if they can't guarantee they're going to land every punch. They wait for the opening first, especially with the back hand. He still doubled up the left hand. The Older fighter can't expose himself so much if he misses with the lead hand.

 

I think you would be on fairly safe grounds saying that Tyson was more shot post Lewis, than any version of Louis we ever saw in a boxing match. Louis never suffered the final indignity of losing to somebody who was not world class.

 

None of which means he wasn't severely diminished as a boxer.

 

No he didn't ,after the 48 Walcott fight Louis had a further 10 bouts he scored just 3 inside the distance wins and only one ko.
The ko was over Savold who was as used up as Louis , one other stoppage was on cuts and the other was a tko ,over a Ham and Egger in the closing moments of the last round. Dropping Agramonte ,who went the distance in his 2 fights with Louis means jack sh*t.Agramonte had already been stopped 5 times , most recently by Walcott in 7 rds a year earlier .Commentators,writers, and Louis himself said he didn't have his right hand any more.No body with any sanity seriously contends that those opponents that went the distance with him after 1948 would have done so had he been anywhere near prime.

 

contending that louis would not stop all his comeback opponents within his prime is an etirely seperate issue. these are still worthy wins and I contend that this comeback run was better than ANYTHING Rocky had acheived up until this point. yes joe Louis had declined but he was still a top heavyweight in his own right.

 

More shot.

Pointless concept really, both were too far gone for the fights to be representative. Louis couldn't pull the trigger, Tyson couldn't slip a jab.

Pulling the trigger is the major sign of someone being shot so I would say Louis is more shot, not thay it matters.

 

Louis was shot physically, the end of a long and active career & title reign, he was an old man for the Era (start as teens, finish shop worn 15-20 years or more later).

Tyson was shot Emotionally, Mentally and Exploitatively...

I'd say Tyson was more affected by his circumstances than Louis would have been by his.