Was Louis more shot against Marciano than Tyson was against Lewis?

My mind was closed? Come on Mcvey, you have never acknowledged that Joe Louis had a right hand in his comeback. It's the hand he scored a knockdown with! You may as well say "Joe Louis never had a right hand because the guy he decked was easy to deck" come on. If joe had no right hand he would have decked him with his left.

Cleveland Williams never knocked him down at all. Left or right hand.

My mentioning Bonavena and Chuvalo not knocking down Patterson when Radmacher, Harris and a number of lesser fighters knocked him down shows that their not knocking Floyd over does not mean they punch any less hard than Harris and co.

 

I don't think we know what a man is truely thinking, bizzare to imply you can read his inner thoughts. But I remember you claiming the same thing about Lewis, so time traveling boxing psychic just seems to be your thing.

The facts.

Louis fought a slew of dark exhibitions against genuine contenders that were often described as real all out fights to prepare for Charles.

Louis spent the next year, fighting contenders on an almost monthly basis to work his way to the top of the rankings we're he attempted to make a rematch with Charles. He improved from match to match, experimented with different weights, and finally fought Marciano with a title shot opportunity on the line, going out on his shield.

But you don't think he was serious, because....you are just talking absolute ****.

 

From March 1st 1949 until Sept 1949 when he fought Charles,Louis had 43 exhibitions.Only 3 were against ranked heavyweights Valentino and Agramonte x2 Henry was subsequently rated at the years end I believe. Only 3 of those exhibitions did not go the full route scheduled.

"I announced that I'd decided to come out of retirement and challenge Charles for the championship.The reason taxes".

Far from gradually preparing himself to fight Charles ,Louis complained he did not have enough time .

"Only 6/7 weeks, ordinarily that would have been enough ,but this was my first real fight after a 2 year layoff".
"In the back of my head I knew I didn't have enough time.The IBC wanted the fight in September at Yankee Stadium, but I figured I'd rather have it at the Garden in December ,so I could condition myself more".
Joe Louis.

Some one is talking absolute sh*t but it isn't the poster accused of it.

 

No...Louis was still a decent contender

 

I don't think he was serious because he cameback purely to pay off the IRS.
IRS is not bull, but kudos in your bravado for claiming that a massive tax bill to pay off when you have no career is amounts to nothing. Emphatically everyone I know would disagree with you, but its nice you have a different opinion and you stick by it. good luck with it.

 

Doesn't mean he was any less shot though, maybe it's because he was a better fighter than Tyson?

 

I was also thinking of Layne, Valdes, Flynn, Bivins, Shepard, Cominsky,and Ray..etc. I said genuine contenders, not RING top 10 at year end.

I did not dispute he came back for money. I dispute the assumption he was not serious in winning the title. His actions suggest he wanted to be successful....which makes sense since Champions usually earn more.

So? After a disappointing performance he realized he needed more work to shake the rust and got busy with a grueling schedule as I said.

What **** do you speak of?

Can you prove Louis was not serious in his comeback, and what his innermind envisioned?

 

This is absolutely correct.:good

By the time fought marciano, Joe had even more incentive to win because Walcott was the new Champion.

I'm sure Joe favoured fighting Walcott for the title over a Charles rematch. Especially seeing as Louis knocked out Walcott previously.

 

His actions suggest he was serious in returning to form. Louis did not have to fight dark exhibitions to get in shape, he did not have to waste his time fighting contenders monthly, adjusting and improving to work his way up the ratings. He could have just sold out and played gate keeper if that was his game.

I don't pretend to know the man's inner thoughts, but common sense tells us that winning the title and defending it would help the tax problem more than a half ass not serious comeback.

Actually you are against the grain here, can you prove what Louis secretly envisioned? Again, talking ****.

 

And being Champion and making defenses would certainly earn more money than getting beat back into retirement by Marciano.

 

I think he at least wanted to give Charles a better go, despire clearly losing he did bust him up with the jab. And Walcott winning the title might have gave him some incentive.

Yes, a game effort from Louis. He won some rounds behind a hard jab but was overwhelmed. He didn't have to get up from the first knockdown and take more punshiment.

 

Just watched the Marciano and Louis fight again the Rock was a monster. He was giving away quite a lot of weight to Louis but he looked a hell of a lot physically stronger. He was wobbling Joe as early as the first round.

 

I don't claim to be privy to Louis's innermost thoughts ,but you saying he was serious about his comeback is no different to the poster you took issue with over it,ie an assumption that you know what his motives were. Louis grossed about $300,000 for those exhibitions I mentioned.
I assume that was his motive for engaging in them ,especially as he himself said he hated the very thought of them . Louis was also endorsing cigarettes in 1949 and going through a divorce from Marva,so yup I'll say he went through with the exhibition tour and the subsequent challenge to Charles for expressly the do re mi !


From his first retirement March 1st until he faced Charles Sept 27th Louis as far as I can ascertain ,did not box exhibitions with either Bivins or Comiskey,by no a stretch of the imagination was Valdes a contender in 1950 when he boxed Louis,he had only boxed 4 times outside Cuba and none of his opponents were above journeymen level. When was Flynn ever a contender?
Sheppard was actually retired when he boxed Louis, so scratch him.


Bottom line Louis himself said his motive for returning to the ring was to pay his tax off.. I'll believe him before I believe you ,unless you can provide evidence to the contrary?

 

No. I made no comment on his inner thoughts, only what his actions suggest.

He was active on the exhibition circuit from 48 to 49, if only counting the ones after he officially announced retirement and took the summer off, still a strong run that suggests he was serious.

Rising prospect and future contender than. Only man in the 50s to knock out Valdes until Machen.