Was Louis more shot against Marciano than Tyson was against Lewis?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by emallini, Dec 26, 2015.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    .
    Sheppard was from Pittsburgh ,where the local press rated him
    is immaterial.In 1948 when he fought Payne,Sheppard had 3 fights losing 2 and winning one against the unranked Alfredo Lagay. That paper refers to Payne being ranked no3 for 1948 so I'll concede that but Sheppard did nothing in1948 to earn any ranking at all and, since in the previous year he only won 3 of 8 fights ,and those over journeymen I won't accept that as an accurate statement by his hometown press.
     
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    What you attempted to do was to modify an untenable position , including Valdes as ,"a genuine contender
    by saying well ,he eventually became one ,it's frankly absurd


    What I'm not happy with is you implying I made up those quotes ,tantamount to calling me a liar and ,when being challenged to apologise if I could prove
    the provenance of them you did not reply.

    Here's your chance to rectify the situation,want to go for it?
     
  3. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I had trouble following the points of the IRS and Louis debate,

    obviously Louis came back to pay tax bills-no doubt of that,

    but I can't think of a better motivation for an older fighter (or almost anyone else)


    Glory? I've had my share. I'll skip roadwork this morning.

    Place in history? Don't wake me until 8.

    Groupies? I'm getting too old for that and the wife is out on the shooting range almost every day.

    The IRS is on my behind to pay up? Set the alarm for 3:30 so I can get in an extra 7 miles of roadwork.


    Downgrading the IRS being on your case as motivation is like saying a guy only hotfooted it out of the woods because an angry bear was chasing him.

    *I also think by the time he got in shape in 1951 Louis probably thought he could beat anyone. So did the bookies. Louis was never an underdog, including against Marciano.
     
  4. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    I said my peace on Valdes. I never claimed he was rated top 10 or wasn't , I used a very broad description that I concede may not be agreeable. Nothing more to add.

    I did reply. I know for a fact I wrote "from 1950" and not "48 to 50", it was literally above the post you issued this so called challenge. So I'm waiting for your apology, I guess.
     
  5. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Well, you didn't think Payne should have been rated top 3 either but he in fact was. Sheppard apparently was rated too.

    The article is enough for me, Sheppard was still in the mix in late 48, giving the number 3 all he could handle and rated 7.

    Lagay was coming off a win over Tommy Gomez who was RING 6 entering 1948, are you sure he wasn't rated? It seems likely he was, if he just beat a top 10 guy.

    You are really hitting em out of the park, aren't you?
     
  6. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Everybody does it for the money. If a fighter says otherwise I would be skeptical.

    An admission of such does not mean one also is not trying to win. I don't understand where crazies like Glee are reading into that.

    And...as I said in theory, winning and losing the title would mean more money if that is the goal. And that appears to be what Louis wanted as he was seeking a rematch against Charles and expressed the fear Walcott would deny him a shot.

    Marciano was an eliminator for the winner of Charles vs Walcott 4.
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I want you to address the fact that you said,


    " feel free to make up whatever quote you want".
    The implication being that the quotes I previously provided were made up by me,in other words I was lying.
     
  8. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    No implication, you did in fact make up the quote.

    No argument, The words I typed were "from 1950" not "48-50" This is indisputable.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Payne went through 1948 with 10 fights without defeat .

    Sheppard had 3 fights and lost 2 of them .Spot the difference?
    Show me what on Sheppard's record in1947 or 1948 would justify him being ranked in the Ring's top ten in1948?

    What you produced was a local paper boosting a local fighter.

    Sure the article is enough for you:patsch

    I'm not sure about Lagay
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    We are at cross purposes I am referring to the quotes of Joe Louis that I posted.
    If you accept them as genuine then I unreservedly withdraw my objections and apologise to you for misinterpreting your words.

    In my defence I do find some of your statements rather oblique.
     
  11. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Sheppard knocked out Lagay, who just beat the RING no. 6 heavyweight. The no. 7 rating seems realistic.

    Why would you argue conspiracy on that?
     
  12. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    No. I never had a problem with the Louis quotes.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    :good I still don't believe Sheppard was ranked ,maybe Ed can shed some more light on it?
     
  14. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    paraphrasing my reply to you is not a meaningful reply to what I said.

    its more akin to what a 12 year does.


    good luck with it.
     
  15. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Don't be so hard on yourself, Glee.

    You are at least akin to what a 13 year old does.

    I will need the luck.