Was Louis-Walcott I a robbery?

As for louis-walcott I, I have highlights of each of the 15 rounds. Walcott clearly won the fight. He was ahead 10 rounds to 3 going into the last 2 rounds. didnt matter that he ran. he knocked louis down twice, and outboxed him nearly every round. walcott was great. Louis knocked him out in the rematch to settle the score.

 

I dont understand mendoza. you claim patterson had underated power, and walcotts power is overated, yet on film walcott had more one punch knockouts/knockdowns than patterson, and walcott floored/knocked out better fighters than floyd did. Some of walcotts best knockouts arnt even on film.

 

This statement is misleading, but ture. Marshal, a middle weight floored Chalres 9 times and TKO'd him. The ref probaly saved Chalres from a 10 count.

In another fight, Bivins floored Chalres seven times, four of which were nine counts. While I did not see this fight, Chalres might have been lucky to escape with a loss as oppoosed to a TKO.

Bivins was not known for knockouts. He KO'd only 31 men in 112 fights ( 27.67 % )

Marshal's KO % is not much better at 36%.

 

I think Patterson hit harder than Walcott. I also think Patterson fought better heavies. But my judgement here is based on the flims. Patterson just had more imapct when he landed.

If you want to look at commom opponents, Patterson stopped Moore in 5 rounds. Chalres failed to stop Moore 2 of 3 times, and took 8 rounds to get the job done in a see-saw fight where Chalres was pretty much out on his feet before landing a bomb.

 

I dont know why you brought charles into this thread, but were talking about a younger prime archie moore who fought charles, vs a 40 year old archie on one of his worst nights vs patterson. big difference

I dont think so, patterson didnt flatten guys with one punch consistently the way walcott did

but he did not beat better heavies. walcott beat louis, charles, ray, bivins, johnson, murray, gomez, Reddish, baksi........much better resume than pattersons.

how? against who? maybe at 168lb against super middles, but at heavy it took patterson loads of combinations to put fighters down(save ingo fight). walcott needed only one punch to floor/knockout hall of famer fighters and top rated heavyweights. when walcott connected with 1 punch, guys went down. patterson typically needed 4-5 punch combos. Who did patterson floor with the durability of a rocky Marciano and joey maxim?

 

ezzard Charles was 21 years old and only 165lb during these fights, when he physically matured later on into a 180-185lber, marshall and bivins in 6 subsequent meetings were unable to record a win over ezzard.


Lloyd marshall was a big puncher, bringing up his low knockout percentage is not going to change that. ike williams had a low knockout percentage, was he not a big puncher?

 

I am talking 1956 here. Patterson starched Moore in 5 rounds. It took Rocky 9. Moore was a good older fighter, and was not " ruined " by Marciano.

Ever seen the Ingo KO?

I said Patterson fought better heavies. Some guy named Ali and Liston...twice. I never said he beat better heavies.

Patterson floored a prime Quarry, who for my money took a pretty good heavyweight punch. I think Quarry took a better punch than Charels did, woudl you not agree? I also have little doubt Patterson fought more durable fighters...Liston 2x, Ali 2x, Chavalo, Bonevena, Quarry, etc... yet his KO% is still much higher than Walcott's.

We are not going to agree here. We do agree that Walcott was robbed vs Louis, and I suppose I'll end here as that is the point of this thread.

 

mooore looked awful vs patterson. marciano had clearly taken something out of him. moore had non existent movement in the patterson fight, compared to the 1947 moore who had incredible movement when he dispatched bivins in 9 rounds. Moore was a much younger sharper faster better fighter when he fought chalres in the late 1940s than the slow moving 40 year old moore on his offnight vs floyd patterson.

Sweet, but Walcott did the same thing to charles.

Thats debatable. Walcott fought louis and marciano.......twice. who are just as good as ali and liston. walcott performed much better vs louis and marciano than patterson did vs liston and ali. in fact walcott floored louis and marciano a combined 4 times. patterson did not floor ali or liston once.

Sweet, Walcott floored a prime Rocky Marciano who took a better punch than quarry.

he did not take a better punch than marciano....would you not agree?

how many of these guys did he floor?? Walcott floored some very durable fighters.......

 

bump for mendoza

 

This is because Patterson was fast, skilled and hit hard. Marciano did not take a lot out of Moore. Moore had plenty left in the late 50's.

Charles got up ok. Ingo was badly Ko'd. Some felt tradegy might happen, Patterson included. That is the differnce. On flim, Patterson's KO shot on Ingo is a lot harder than the shot Walcott lands.

This is because Patterson did not last long vs Liston, and fought a prime Ali, who was very hard to catch let alone floor. I do think Patterson could Walcott floor eaisly, as Moore to me was more durable and we know what Patterson did to him. I also think Patterson could possibly floor Marciano.

Hard to say for sure. I would lean towards Marciano taking a better shot over Quarry, but I think its close. Frazier landed plenty of hard shots on Quarry in the first fight, and Quarry took them well. Frazier likely hit harder than anyone Marciano took punches from in the ring. Quarry was stopped a few times, but harldy down. Most of them were TKO's / Cuts type of stoppages. Quarry to me has a more battle tested chin than Marciano does. Quarry beat better punchers than Rocky did for sure. Lyle, Shavers, and Mac Foster come to mind. That's all I have to say here. I rather hear more comment on Wlacott vs Louis 1, & 2. Over and out.

 

I agree with the spirit of this post, but when did Walcott knock down Maxim? I've read newspaper accounts of the second and third fights and don't recall any mention of Walcott dropping Maxim, and have seen snippets on the first fight, also with no such mention. Can you produce a source?

 

I was in the Garden with my dad for that fight. Louis, like SRR, was an idol of mine, but even as a young boy, I could see that Jersey Joe was ripped off. The judges didn't even have the decency to wear ski masks and carry guns.

 

Technically, yes, this was the perfect finish, since it was emphatic, immediate and final. However, I think you know that wasn't really what the posters you respond to here were talking about. The point was that Walcott was not good at finishing off an opponent he had hurt, but not actually put out. Notice, against many of his major opponents- Bivins, Oma, Ray, Louis, Marciano- Walcott would score knockdowns, usually early and sudden ones, too, but would fail to put them away, and it occasionally came back to haunt him. I would say this is one of the weak points of Walcott's style.

 

Good response Suzie....I agree, Walcott had Louis on the deck 3 times and Marciano as well and a very recupritive Ezzard Charles out cold...the very Big punchers Patterson faced INGO and Liston ko'd him and even the crude Ingo had him down in the losing efforts not to mention a greener Quarry, Pro debut Pete Radamaker and Roy Harris ...Archie took a serious and severe beating from Marciano and as all of Rockys opponents Archie was winged and wounded going into the Patterson fight, he managed to only lose to Ali 6 years later and one other and still managed to beat some very good fighters but anyone who watches that fight saw Archie take a brutal beating and to suggest that nothing was taken out of him is ludicris but Marciano ruined Charles,Lastarza,Walcott,Vingo,Louis and many others

 

Good point he had that one shot pinpoint power and the one punch over Charles was just that but 3 KD's vs Louis and One over Marciano but he ran into trouble when he tried to mix with Joe after hurting him in the 2nd encounter...he was a trickster a and sneaky puncher but not a succesful trader with the likes of Louis and Rocky but in all fairness how many people fought them both