Was Marciano REALLY superior to Frazier?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by ribtickler68, Mar 25, 2016.



  1. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Marciano as well as Dempsey far superior fighters than Frazier.
     
  2. yancey

    yancey Active Member Full Member

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    If we agree with you, will you promise to go away?
     
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  3. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Frazier's best win is better than both of their best wins combined.
     
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Perhaps, but once you get past that, it is a different story.
     
  5. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    You don't get past it because it's arguably the greatest victory in the history of the division.

    Supporting it you still have quality wins in Quarry x2, Bonavena, Bugner, Foster, Ellis, Mathis, Chuvalo... not bad at all.

    Better than Dempsey both at the top and all the way through.
     
  6. yancey

    yancey Active Member Full Member

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    Joe Frazier fought and beat Oscar Bonavena in the 12th fight of his career.

    Who the hell did Rocky fight in the 12th fight of his career?
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Yes but having the best win out of two fighters, does not necessarily give you the better resume overall.

    For example James Douglas has a better single win than Larry Holmes, but few people would argue that he was greater.
     
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Obviously nobody as good as Bonavena, but being matched harder earlier in your career, does not in itself make your resume better either.

    For example Alexander Povetkin was matched harder and earlier than George foreman.
    These are three fighters whose resumes have significantly different points of strength and weakness.
     
  9. yancey

    yancey Active Member Full Member

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    How is this for a resume?

    A heavyweight champ, who less than two years from winning the title, fought three straight guys with LOSING records.

    One of the opponents had a 3-13-3 record! Three wins, THIRTEEN losses!

    Care to guess which heavyweight champ that was???
     
  10. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Wow, never realized that! If my math is right, it turns out that a third of his opponents (eighteen) were .500 or lower. Frazier only fought 5 such opponents.
     
  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Maciano turned professional with only a handful of professional fights, and got thrown to the wolves in fourth professional fight.

    Bobby Quinn and Eddie Ross were not opponents picked to give him a tough workout.

    They were matched with him with the intention that they would beat him, and so develop themselves as fighters.

    Some time after this, Marciano’s handlers realised that he was actually a fighter with some potential, and started matching him more carefully.
     
  12. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Like when they were finally willing to put him in with Willis Applegate, Art Henri, Harold Mitchell, and Eldridge Eatman?? Talk about a Murderers' Row :bbb:bbb:bbb:bbb
     
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  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I won’t lie to you here.

    When I compare two all-time great heavyweight, the question of which of them beat the worst ten fighters, is not very high on my list of criteria.
     
  14. yancey

    yancey Active Member Full Member

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    btw, since I mentioned that Frazier fought the very dangerous Oscar Bonavena in just his 12th fight, the 12th opponent for Rocky needs to have his record mentioned.

    No need to mention the fellow's name, I'm sure he was a wonderful guy. But he was 3-4 at the time he fought Rocky. He finished 3-7, with 6 knockout losses.
     
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    OK so Frazier beat a better opponent in his twelfth professional fight.

    Let’s move on.