Was Marciano superior defensively to Tyson, and Frazier?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by swagdelfadeel, Jan 12, 2021.

Was Marciano a better defensive fighter than Tyson and Frazier?

  1. No. It's not even close enough to warrant a discussion.

    83.0%
  2. Better than Tyson, worse than Frazier.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Better than Frazier, worse than Tyson.

    9.4%
  4. Better than both

    7.5%
  1. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I read this post and I was taken by surprise. I will not name the man who posted this as I don't want to embarrass him.

    I personally never thought this was up for debate. Great as he was, Marciano had a lot of faults, and his defense was one of them, He was even getting lit up by an old Joe Louis, by his own admission "I couldn't avoid his jabs I just had to take them" , and the picture of him taken the morning after the fight supports this.
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    While he wasn't exactly a punching bag, he wasn't exactly very hard to find either even against less than world-class opponents. Slow, and sloppy head movement along with footwork.

    Tyson, on the other hand. Well his work speaks for itself

    Frazier's defense was legendary, as well. Had the highest heavyweight slip and duck rate (as far as I'm aware of at least) against the most accurate heavyweight of all time.

    Chuvalo, who'd fought a PEAK Muhammad Ali, and Patterson, two men notorious for their defense, when asked who had the best defense of anyone he ever faced "Joe Frazier, believe it or not. He was very hard to hit and bobbing and weaving was natural to him. He’s recognized as a great fighter, but not many people compliment Joe on his defense. The uppercut was the only shot he was really susceptible to, as we seen against George Foreman. Joe was excellent at avoiding straight punches, which was the reason he gave Ali so much trouble in the first fight. He slipped the punches and closed the gap."

    I don't think Marciano even comes close to either of these men, not enough to even warrant a debate but that's just my opinion. What do you think?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
  2. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Very good of u not 2 mention his name swag, but you'r right, it's just not logical by any means. Marciano had no defense of all the watching I've done of him. Tyson and Frazier were both excellent defensive fighters, although it was not their primary strength.
     
  3. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I wouldn't say he had "no defense" whatsoever. It just wasn't a quarter as good as his most rabid supporters made it out to be.
     
  4. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    Awaits the votes of the Primo 3........

    One of them will attempt to compare Rockys defensive genius with Liston & Foreman. He may even work Cleveland Williams into the debate.
     
  5. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Addict Full Member

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    yeah, I was just doing it 4 dramatic effect; close, tho
     
    swagdelfadeel likes this.
  6. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I wonder who you're talking about.... it's a tough one but I think I'm gonna go with Choklab for $200!
     
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  7. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Marciano's defence is much better than people make out. People seem to think he was just there to be hit when it just isn't so.
     
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  8. Soxial experimennt 2.0

    Soxial experimennt 2.0 Trans and proud banned Full Member

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    Frazier’s defence is overrated if you timed him properly with an uppercut he was toast
     
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  9. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Wow, if only you were in Ali's corner in TFOTC. Could've told him what he was getting wrong.
     
  10. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'm not saying he was a defenseless bum or anything of that sort, but to say he's harder to hit than Frazier, and Tyson is laughable. Dempsey was also better defensively imo.
     
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  11. Soxial experimennt 2.0

    Soxial experimennt 2.0 Trans and proud banned Full Member

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    Ali didn’t hit hard enough Foreman got the job done
     
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  12. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders NSB defector Full Member

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    Of these 3, Marciano is the only one didnt charge in head first. Tyson and Frazier both walked in through the front door, straight into the fire line. Granted, they both had great upper body movement, and Id put Frazier ahead of Tyson in that category. Marciano had a different approach. Nobody becomes an unfeated champion without a defense. He stayed off the center line, circled a bit, stayed low, leaned back, crept his way in, looked for ambushs and openings and had his right hand in front as to parry. Thats a very awkward target to attack. His posture is fundamentally more defense oriented then the 2 counter parts. Tyson and Frazier were more about imposing their will at all time and were less cautious as a result. To answer the question... Marciano is not defensively superior, he just has a different style.
     
  13. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree, that picture of him after fighting a shot Joe Louis speaks volumes
     
  14. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Ii6 Full Member

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    I think that they were simply different defensively. Rocky didn't have as good head movement as Frazier or Tyson, but he used different approach with low crouch and different guard.

    I think that Tyson was the best in terms of conventional defense, but he also was the most predictable.
     
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  15. Bah Lance

    Bah Lance Member Full Member

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    Tyson and Frazier both became more hittable as the fight progressed. Their defense was built around movement, which would eventually slow down and become more predictable. Look at prime Tyson in say the last half of the Bonecrusher fight, he's just walking in with his chin tucked basically.

    Marciano didn't use as much movement, but his leaning stance is very weird, and he's superior at feinting which further kept his opponents off guard and in retreat.

    This forum isn't supposed to be casual fans applauding flashy highlight reels from early rounds. Marciano brawled and exchanged freely, but when closing the distance I'm not sure he consistently ate as much leather as Tyson and Frazier did over the course of a longer fight. Because they ultimately were more predictable once their speed declined after the early rounds.
     
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