Was Mike Tyson a cherry picker in the 1990's?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, May 7, 2019.



  1. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No one has said that Tyson cleaned out the division in the 90's, so that's a strawman. And, yes, guys like Tillman, McNeely, Mathis jr and Norris wasn't much, but no fighter in history has only faced contenders. Even Ali faced his few share of non-entities like Rudi Lubbers. Doesn't make him a cherry picker.

    I'll repost my timeline below. Feel free to put in the ones you think he should have faced instead and when (considering also that he had two lay-offs):

    1990: The best challenge out there was Holy and he was scheduled to face him, but the Douglas loss derailed it. Instead he had a decent comeback, beating Stewart who gave both Holy and Foreman tough fights.

    1991: Was again scheduled to face Holy after two fights against the feared top contender Ruddock, but was sent to prison.

    1995: Two meaningless tune up fights. My thinking at the time was that he could have faced better opponents but that he was still just shaking off rust and would soon step up in competition. Turned out to be true.

    1996: Won two of the main titles. Can't really argue with that. Holy was seen as a gimme at the time, though, but he was a contender and meant big money. Bowe was the fight everyone wanted going into the year, but Golota soon made him irrelevant. And Lewis held no major title at the time. So two title holders and Holy have to be seen as a good year all in all.

    1997: Holy was the natural fight to make and after that he was suspended for the rest of the year.

    1999: Two pretty non-descript opponents. Botha was near the top 10, I suppose.

    So he faced a good level of competition every year he was active except 1995 and 1999, when he was coming back from lay-offs. There really isn't much room to pencil in the guys you mention above.
     
  2. HerolGee

    HerolGee Obsessed with Boxing booted Full Member

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    but as it stands they are bigger cherrypickers than comeback tyson, yes?
     
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  3. HerolGee

    HerolGee Obsessed with Boxing booted Full Member

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    but as it stands they are bigger cherrypickers than tyson, yes?

    only Kovalev has so far gone on to unify like comeback tyson.
     
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  4. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Bruno had just beat the guy who had stopped Lewis, so short of Bowe I can't think of anyone who was seen as a clearly bigger threat at the time, no. Same with Seldon when he faced him. Mercer had put in a good losing effort against Lewis but hadn't beat anyone of note for five years and lost several times during that time. Foreman stayed away from anyone with a pulse and looked crap when he managed to come across one by mistake (Schultz). Bowe had just looked **** against Golota. Guys like Tua, Ike and Briggs hadn't truly come of age yet.

    In hindsight, after Seldon's shameful display against Tyson and considering what several of the guys would do it seems clear they were bigger threats, but at the time not really. Lewis, yes probably, even though his chin still was in serious question after McCall and though he hadn't looked good at all against Mercer. But not much in it considering just that. And he held no major title

    And why should Tyson ignore someone holding a title just because there could have been someone more dangerous out there without a major title? How is it cherry picking to go after the major titles? Should he have said "Sorry guys, I won't take the opportunity to once more become unified champ since you're not strong enough title holders to take the titles from."? Is that the alternative to being a cherry picker in your universe? You've been asked that several times by several posters. Please respond or stay out.

    You've also been asked to name where you see the opportunities for all these fights. I reposted the timeline for you to do it, so please do or stay out.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  5. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    There's no signs of ANY of them facing off anytime soon. No negotiations , no offers or contracts being sent to one another.. nothing!!

    But you are quick to call out the current crops of HWs as avoiding each other despite Joshua making offer after offer to Wilder. 175 are guilty of avoing each other and cherry picking easy fights. If you were fair an unbiased , you call it out , but you didn't and won't.
     
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  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Silly. Lewis cleaned out the division far more so than Tyson in the 1990’s

    Here’s the end game and part where I where see little debate.

    1 ) give me your top 10 heavyweight in the 1990’s please.

    2 ) how many people on that list did Tyson beat in the 1990’s?

    3) how many people didn’t Tyson fight on your list?

    All are invited to play. Who’s first? All I ask is to stay on track. No excuses or calling out other fighters.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  7. HerolGee

    HerolGee Obsessed with Boxing booted Full Member

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    so now you DONT tihnk that don king took that circituous route to set tyson up with bruno?

    make your mind up!


    of course he did. dont bring up a fact that noone has argued against and pretend its a winner.
     
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  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Give the 175 top fighters time. The media thinks we will see a big match soon. I tend to agree.

    Yes I think the current heavies aren’t making the right fights. Fury should face Joshua. Wilder I think has no interest in facing Joshua. I call them out for bad title defenses.

    We are talking about a decade here. Not a year or two of active fighters. I’ll be back on Sunday. We’ll see who answers the three questions I posted. You’re welcome to join in
     
  9. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Ok , lets give them a decade to sort it out. In the meantime lets hold the HW division to a completely different standard.
     
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  10. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    The media thinks we will see a big match soon. I tend to agree.
     
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  11. HerolGee

    HerolGee Obsessed with Boxing booted Full Member

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    the top five of the 90s would be bowe holy tyson lennox, and perhaps foreman but that could easily be someone else.

    in the 90s -

    bowe fought one, holyfield twice
    holy fought 3, over 7 bouts
    tyson fought one over 2 bouts
    foreman fought one.
    lennox fought 2 bouts, same guy

    tyson is on par with the ATG lennox in the 90s. I dont know what you mean Mendy.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  12. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Mathis and McNeeley were faced after over 4 years of inactivity do you understand this?
    Francis and Savarese were in the next decade so have no relevance to this debate.
     
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  13. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Addict Full Member

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    So you thought those guys had a decent shot at beating Tyson? Do you actually know anybody that is a supporter of Mathis? Ali fought Jerry Quarry when he came back after a long layoff. 3 months later, Bonavena. So there was someone wearing the same shoes. Things were just done different.


    Did you go to Tyson fights back then? How about gamble on them? They were mismatches of the highest order. And sloppy defenses. All of them---easy to hit. That was a main reason the were selected as the opponent. And no movers. Just guys right in front of Tyson. Optimal matchmaking.

    Have you ever spent time with say Bruce Trampler or Al Braverman? The guys that made matches for DKP and Main Events? It would help your understanding of the sport and how and why things are done and matches are made.
     
  14. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    So now apparently tyson didn't deserve a soft touch after 4 years of inactivity. Anything less than a murderous dangerous prime puncher after a long layoff is unacceptable even if that guy has a belt.

    That is essentially what you guys are claiming. In other words, setting impossible standards for Tyson and not for others. Which means deep down you admit his greatness. This is like saying Joe Louis was a fraud for not fighting Marciano in his first fight after returning from the army.

    Unbelievable how ive come full circle defending a guy i used to think wasnt even a top 10 hw. Guess I'm Thanos, I've come to bring balance.
     
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  15. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    I'm explaining why Tyson took on those soft touches,he had been out of the ring for over 4 years!
    Who did Tyson Fury fight in his comeback?
    The rest of your post is totally irrelevant to the thread.
    Braverman is a loudmouthed slob and just a gopher.
     
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