Was Monzon better than Arguello P4P?

I disagree, but that’s a good post.

 

Argeullo was just a bit more "mobile".. P4P

 

Elorde, Liston, Nino and McCallum above Saldivar is painful.

 

I rate Monzon as arguably the BEST MW, but I think P4P Arguello has a case as being the greater fighter overall in my opinion. Monzon was more dominant but stayed in one division while Arguello fought his way up weight classes and fought some good fighters himself. They're very close together though.

 

I loved Arguello as well but not moving up in weight does not make you a less fighter, sometimes a fighter knows his limitations. Look how Alexis moved up to fight Aaron Pryor, and remember how that turned out. If a fighter is comfortable at a certain weight class, then by all means, he should move up. Carlos Monzon was comfortable at the 160 lb weight class. Imagine if he had moved up to fight Bob Foster? To be honest, that would have turned horribly bad for him. Carlos was not having any trouble with his weight, where Alexis was having trouble making weight as Duran and others did. The question could be put, why did Marvelous Marvin Hagler not move up in weight to fight Michael Spinks? I think that both were great fighters, probably the best in the history of the sport in their respective weights. But I do respect your opinion. The fans expect too much.

 

I agree with everything you said 100%. I think it just depends on which fighter's resume you prefer: the more dominant fighter in one weight class or the guy constantly moving up and being more vulnerable. I'm not holding anything against Monzon at all, I just have a personal preference over Arguello. But I can see why Monzon has a case of being greater than Arguello.

Welcome back to the forum by the way Richard M Murrieta, we missed you!

 

Hey my friend I am glad to be back, missed you guys too.

 

Yeah, hard to justify any of those placements.

 

He was certainly a sick man who needed to get well. He needed somebody with balls to tell him the truth. He knew he was fuked up but that ego. The same one that made him a
champion wasnt gonna be easy to penetrate.
Monzon was an addict who suffered blackouts. If he could've stopped the drugs who knows?
Its beyond sad.

 

Remember a smaller man 4lbs and 9lbs is a bigger part of their own weight.

 

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I think this is relatively cut and dry, but in the opposite direction. While Monzon was the greater Champion, and maybe even the better more dominate fighter, but he wasn't better p4p than Alexis. The biggest variable for me in a p4p comparison, is well, how well they did when MOVING UP and TESTING themselves against bigger fighters. So in that specific variable, Alexis is vastly ahead of Monzon, because he did just that, tested himself in higher divisions, the whole premise behind p4p. When one thinks of p4p, the immediate premise that comes to mind for me is, regardless of weight, this fighter could beat men below him or above him; his skill set and physical attributes in enough to overcome a weight disadvantage. While I'd like to think this applies definitively with Monzon, he never proved that premise to be true.

What's worse, he was usually the bigger fighter with the physical attribute advantage, and in some cases a skill advantage. If he at least was a small MW and was routinely beating bigger MW, the above premise would be easier to get to through extrapolation and scaling. Yet again, it was the opposite in Monzon's case. So to me, I have Alexis as the better p4p fighter

 

No. Arguello is defined too much for his losses v the cheat Pryor.
Monzon is great and was dominant but against fighters who were naturally smaller, and he went life and death against several.
There's an argument for each but I lean to Arguello.

 

was hoping a Monzon supporter would counter some of the points flash, others and myself brought up in support of Arguello

 

Just a couple things.

1) Which of the men the 5’10 Arguello fought from 126 to 135 (not even a 10 pound gap) was bigger than him?

2) Monzon moving up one weight class in his era would’ve been a bigger weight jump than Arguello gradually made over his entire career from Featherweight to Jr. Welter, 3 weight classes higher.

We saw what happened to Arguello when he climbed almost that high. It took balls, but not brains to get in with a genuinely bigger man who could eat anything he dished out.

If you’re gonna choose Arguello, go ahead. Nip this whole size/pound for pound argument in the bud, though. It holds little weight. His superior wins resume holds plenty of weight, on the other hand.