Was prime "Iron" Mike Tyson the greatest heavyweight of all time?

So in other words he is pushing Rocky Marciano type numbers by the time he goes to prison, and he is still younger than Rocky Marciano on the date of his pro debut.

Any sort of consistency up to the age of 30, might have seen him pushed top the top of the tree.

 

no

 

I have him in the 5-7 range, along with Frazier and Liston.

 

Completely irrelevant. Liston was old, unprepared and injured.

 

He was so "old, unprepared and injured" that 43 out of 46 sportswriters at ringside picked him to win.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...bf4284-2a6f-11e6-a3c4-0724e8e24f3f_story.html

 

Liston was around 40 years old, did not prepare properly and had a recurring shoulder injury. Took a dive in the second fight.
Patterson had an injured sacroiliac joint and was not a proper HW size wise.
Terell was a stiff.
Folley was a bum.

Frazier was a one trick pony who only had a left hook.
Norton is hyped simply cause he beat Ali.
Peralta was a bum.
Chuvalo was a limited bum.

Carnera and Sharkey - bums
Schmelling - good for his era, a bum in the modern era.
Baer - bum, one trick pony.

Holmes - old, but still better than 90% of the division. Went on to fight for the world title in his 40s.
Berbick is not worth mentioning among Tyson's best wins. Thomas or Ribalta are better wins.
Spinx - top 5 LHWs of all time, ended Holmes's undefeated run.
Tucker - great boxer, coke ruined his career.
Smith - decent, just fought to survive.

Tyson's best opponents beat the **** out of Louis's best opponents.
And in case you didn't read the title, I'll repeat for the millionth time, resume is ****ing irrelevant, this is about prime, meaning we are just judging ability, not achievements. Peak Tyson mops the floor with any HW that ever lived.

No, they don't have any edge, context matters.
Liston was 40 years old, untrained and injured, Holmes was 38 and not injured.
Foreman was way bigger that the one trick pony Frazier.

Point being results don't matter one bit, ability does, and Tyson is superior.

 

Completely irrelevant. None knew his real age, how prepared he was or his recurring injury.

 

I will leave it to the readers of this thread to decide if they want to accept the opinion of a random internet poster or the 43 out of 46 sportswriters at ringside who watched the two combatants box and train in real time and concluded Clay/Ali had no chance. Is that fair and reasonable?

 

Liston had just won the championship and his age is anyone's guess. He injured his shoulder because Ali made him miss. The 2nd fight was a 1st round KO. Patterson was around the same size as several heavyweights of that era. Terrel was a champion and Folley was the #1 contender.

You can do this with anyone's resume. Shall I do Tyson's?

-Spinks wasn't a proper heavyweight, had bad knees, and lost before he entered the ring.
-Holmes was 38 and coming off 2 losses.
-Smith didn't even try, he barely threw punches and just wanted to survive.
-Thomas was a heroin addict.
-Tucker had a broken hand.
-Tubbs was a feather fisted, lazy fatass who showed up out of shape on purpose despite being offered money to lose weight.

The only healthy, prime, ranked opponents Tyson beat were Ruddock and Berbick by your logic.

Your style of debating leaves a lot to be desired. In almsot every thread, all you do is tear down the resume of the boxer you dislike while hypocritically hyping up the boxers you like. Nothing you write is even original, these arguments have been done hundreds of times several years before you even posted here.

The bolded is your opinion. For the millionth time, just because you feel strongly about something doesn't make it a fact. Several of Tyson's best opponents were very beatable and many Heavyweights could have beaten them. He didn't exactly have an incredibly deep and dangerous division.

Peak Tyson went life and death with 42-1 Buster Douglas. That is your opinion he beats any HW. Here, I'll provide the definitions of the words opinion and fact since you seem to be confused:

Opinion (noun): a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

Fact (noun): something that actually exists; reality; truth:

Results do matter when determining who is the best at something. Anyone can look good shadow boxing or knocking out bums. The quality of your best opponents and how convincing the victories are matter. Tyson's results are not as impressive because his opponents weren't that impressive and he suffered a very devastating loss in his prime to a guy he had no business losing to. He has no signature elite win over a prime fighter. He never got off the floor to win. He never avenged a loss. He has very few fights where he makes adjustments and wins after struggling or getting outboxed. He had several flaws even in his prime. He was not perfect and both Hoylfield and Lewis would likely always have been major problems for him. Screaming over and over that Tyson was the best ever is simply your opinion and you're doing a horrible job trying to convince me.

 

Liston took a dive in the second fight.
And Tyson was not prime for Douglas, his prime ended when he fired Rooney.

 

Tyson was the last heavyweight that really had a chance to lay a legit claim to being the best heavyweight ever. He squandered that chance. A fighter must really capture the public’s interest. And few have like Tyson. He was the biggest athlete in the world something that rarely happens in boxing and never happens anymore. He was a modern day Dempsey. A must see attraction. Even non fans of the sport would stop and pay attention.
He cut through the 3 belt holders with ease, Berbick, Smith, Tucker, dismantled the previous great Holmes in 4 rounds and the lineal champ was obliterated in 1.
Even after the incredulous implosion against Douglas he had a chance to right himself. Had he not gone to prison - and instead fought and defeated Holyfield after the Ruddock bouts and then avenged his loss to Douglas. In my book he would of been lock top 5 and in discussion with Ali and Louis in top 3.
He would only be about 27 years old incredibly enough at this point. With Bowe hitting the horizon. I think Tyson even dedicated would of began to erode at this point as his physical dimensions always led to a taxing fight if he couldn’t get his man out early. But had he avenged Douglas and beat Holy in a mega fight back in 91 I think Tyson would be in the picture for goat. Assuming he didn’t hang around and pick up a lot of late stage losses.

 

If you knew for a fact Liston took a dive you wouldn't be on here posting about it, you'd be getting interviewed and getting paid lots of money. Once again you are confusing opinion with fact. It is your opinion Liston took a dive and that Tyson's prime ended when he fired Rooney.

Truly great fighters don't fall apart just because things aren't going their way or they fire a coach.

 

Hmm, to me Holyfield came quite close after him. Only winner in heavyweight history of 4 world titles, resume is pretty damn impressive...

Lewis isn't exactly super far off from that designation either, in fact if you check his record he might have more claim to that title than Mike. In fact, I'd strongly assert Holyfield did for sure.

 

Neither guy captured the public’s imagination like Tyson did. Then in case of Holyfield he picked up too many losses. He lost the Bowe trilogy. Lost to Moorer (even after that ring magazine named him 3rd best heavy ever in a 1997 issue) but then really began to slide on the back end of his career. As for Lewis he was awarded the wbc belt that Bowe tossed. Then lost it - by 2nd round KO to a career sparring partner. Lewis beat a lot of sluggers but his chief rivals were over the hill Holyfield and shot Tyson. Missing prime Bowe in the early 90s hurts.
Tyson came up fast and was a force of nature. The division needed him badly. Wasn’t really the case for the other two guys. Still both can claim top 10 status

 

Berbick was coming off the best win streak of any of Tyson's opponents, I'd say, including a win over Thomas. Thomas also stated he had an injured right shoulder coming in to the Tyson fight.

And Tucker had an injury to his right hand.

So when it comes to injury free opponents on a good run, Berbick is pretty much what you're left with.