Was Prime Mike Tyson Unbeatable?

All Tyson needs is one monster shot on Lennox porcelain mandible. It worked for McCall as well as Rahman. And Tyson was way quicker and punched harder than those two.

 

Great post.

 

In theory I would agree, but the relatively easy manner in which both Douglas and Holy beat him gives me pause for thought. Yes, these weren't the best versions of Tyson, but hardly washed up shells either and he was still dominated by fighters that weren't highly thought of going in to the fight.

 

Great post.

 

He almost lost to friggin' Tillis under Rooney. Many actually had him losing that fight. That was about half a year before the "invincible Mike" kicked in against Berbick. No one coming that close to losing against a second rate fighter that close to his prime is unbeatable ffs.

 

Exactly. The funny thing is, there are pundits that will claim that for the Tillis fight, Mike was rounding off the end of his “green” phase and still had not entered his “prime” crush, kill, destroy phase. A very fine and convenient demarcation. LOL, the self serving, self rationalisations never end. An absolute stitch up. Haha.

 

Tyson wasn't at his very best against Tillis, that much should be obvious. Tillis tho faded at that stage was still a step up and fought well. Tho only 6 months from decimating Berbick Tyson was on a huge improvement curve and Tillis was a very large part of it. Almost the final piece. Tyson fitted in another 7 fights in that 6 months to Berbick and it's fair to say the 10 he went with Green and almost 10 with Ribalta would have been reasonably educational. Ali was badly hurt by Cooper right before he won the title, Louis was whupped by Schmeling at a stage where he was more developed than Tyson, Bowe had some trouble with an aged Tubbs at a similar stage etc etc etc. Tillis is a storm in a teacup for mine and hardly worth the weight he often gets assigned.

Having said that i'd favor Ali, Lewis, Foreman and Holyfield. I'm not sure any version of Tyson would actually beat the older Holyfield he lost to. Holyfields tactics were absolutely perfect in that one. Liston would be right in it too and Louis couldn't be counted out with those blazing accurate bombs, often in combination.

 

I love how people claim Tyson was in his prime against Tillis, when he'd only been a pro 1 year and 2 months, he was a very raw talented fighter at the time, and needed a tough journeyman like Tillis. To test him and give him much needed rounds, it was a good learning experience for a young talented inexperienced fighter. And I don't see why that should be a knock against Tyson.

As you already pointed out Cooper and Jones, was 1 year and a bit before Ali beat Liston. Does that mean Ali was in his prime against those fighters aswell ? The fact is both fighters Ali/Tyson were young still learning there craft in the pro game.

Foreman/Peralta 1 is another example, of a young power punching Heavyweight. Getting a much needed learning experience vs a crafty veteran boxer.

 

Totally agree DP.

 

My explanation of this is Mike's entire style is constructed to put away fighters in the early rounds, Cus always critiqued him for his mistakes and would drill into him that he could have almost anyone out in early rounds if he was well focused and trained. I think Mike's frustration is from feeling that if a fight goes over 4 or 5 rounds he is failing as a fighter. To Mike it isn't a stylistic problem between him and Douglas (as many of us on the forum may see it) but that he cannot execute the peak-a-boo style correctly enough to negate this obstacle. Because he knows how, Cus told him how, he just can't do it from a lack of training or focus, etc.

tl;dr mikes style if executed properly could put away almost any opponent in the early rounds, once mike reaches the middle rounds he becomes more unfocused and frustrated because to him, he is performing poorly for the fight to have gone on so long.

 

Yes, nothing wrong with struggling with a seasoned vet when on your way up, but it doesn't fit well with unbeatable. The same with Ali's and Louis's early struggles, for that matter.

But everyone except Tyson fans seem to accept that no one is unbeatable. Well, and one Louis fan around here, as well.

 

Who has claimed that Tyson was in his prime for Tilliis?

 

Well unbeatable is probably a tough tag for anyone really. I don't think Ali's struggle with Cooper affects his standing as the consensus H2H GOAT ho. But as you say unbeatable, well, at heavyweight that's a big label. I'd back Ali over them all but that doesn't mean Frazier might turn out to be tough for any version. Even a guy like Lewis with all that size and power, that would be such a different opponent to what he faced tho i'd favor Ali.

 

Yes, and that what separates Tyson fans from most. They literally claim that Rooney Tyson was unbeatable.

 

TBF, Tyson was recovering from an ear infection when he fought Tillis.