Was the level Frazier was at when he fought Ali....

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by KuRuPT, Dec 3, 2018.



  1. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Still conjecture though.
    Frazier’s trainer’s word against Ali’s trainers word and a 3rd guy who says he “heard” that.
    Ali had asked for the gloves to be cut off against Liston at the end of the round when he had the substance in his eyes and we all know he still went out for the following round.
    He had just battered Joe almost to
    a standstill in rounds 13 and 14 there’s no way he would have quit.
    Like’s said, there was no quit in Ali or Frazier.
     
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  2. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    All a matter of opinion and who we deem to be more honest.
     
  3. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That’s fair enough.
     
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  4. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    And Wali Muhammad's word (according to Hauser):

    https://books.google.com/books?id=DfcPAQAAQBAJ&pg=PT319&lpg=PT319&dq=hauser+"after+the+fourteenth+round,+Ali+came+back"&source=bl&ots=U_qjZb20ce&sig=KhDc9jd6s0gIPfoW2wR6kfn_ocM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwikvsaDlY7fAhVMhuAKHYdqAtUQ6AEwAnoECAIQAQ#v=onepage&q=hauser "after the fourteenth round, Ali came back"&f=false
     
  5. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    Joe may have actually been at touch behind his prime by the first fight but he was so pumped he came to lay it all on the line .. Joe had poor vision on one eye most of his career .. he went int these fights severely handicapped out of the gate. Imagine partially blind with his style against bigger men. Crazy .. after the first fight he was never the same.
     
  6. chatty

    chatty Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think it stems from the Thrilla In Manilla documentary, which was great tbf. They edited the documentary to show that Ali allegedly wanted out in the 14th and Futch pulled Frazier out with tha bad eye first and thus Joe wouod have likely won if Futch hadn't pulled the trigger first. Basically ramping up the drama for the finale.of.the documentary and creating some controversy.

    This is false and Ali was waiting ready to go anyway and Frazier wanted to go out but Futch rightly pulled him as he couldn't see.

    I have seen or read before that Ali was either on the verge of quitting at the end of the tenth when Frazier had won the last five but was told Frazier was done and to get back out there. Tim just used a bit creative license and moved that to the 14th for extra drama. Dunno if that is even true tbf, been a while since I've watched it and can't remember where I saw that tbh.

    Ali collapsed in the ring after the fight was pulled, probably cause the adrenaline wore of and he seeped into exhaustion. Both were taken to hospital.

    At the end of the day it doesn't even matter. Futch pulled Frazier who couldn't see and was taking a battering and both men were never the same afterwards. No need to create extra drama cause it was already one of the best fights ever in one of the greatest rivalries and delivered far more than anyone could have asked for. Appreciate it for what it is.
     
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  7. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Frazier went to the hospital, Ali didn't

    This content is protected
     
  8. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Why not? Did you read it?
     
  9. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    Look about the only guy in Ali's circle who has any credibility in my book is Luis Sierra if I even spelled it right. The rest i couldn't give a #### about. I'm not that gullible
     
  10. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    But why don't Wali Muhammad and any of the others have credibility in your book?
     
  11. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    Because in my opinion most of the people in Ali's inner circle were bottom feeders who I wouldn't want to even be in the same building as.
     
  12. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    Edited the documentary??? Sources please
     
  13. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Have you heard any dirt on Wali Muhammad or anything that would call his credibility into question? I ask because I've never heard anything bad about him and I'm surprised that you call him "a bottom feeder" and say that you would never believe anything he has to say about anything.
     
  14. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    These guys were all leeches who fed off a sick Ali. Couldn't care less what any of them had to say. Futch Benton Milt Baily and Willie Monroe are stand up guys.