This thread is NOT to discredit Ali, he was the winner and he beat George. I have been watching lots of Foreman interviews lately, he seems to have various problems with the fight. Primarily the count. 1: His water. He claims his trainer saddler tasted very strange. Like medicine. He continued to drink the water in an attempt not to offend his trainer. He claims it severely impacted his stamina and led to him getting tired, which never happened even in his older bouts 2: The ropes. He claims they were much more loose than they normally were in an average match. Due to him being Muhammed Ali, its not very unbelievable to believe that one of his requests would be granted regarding the atmosphere of the fight. 3: The count. He claims that the ref ordered him to stay down, as soon as he was commanded to get up the ref waved his arm to signify the end of the bout. He never understood this as he was following the orders of the ref. He also claims he gave his manager 25k to pass onto the ref to ensure he doesn’t get DQ for hitting Ali while he's down. Ali denies all these claims. All this comes from George in his later years, he has no flaws in credibility and no motivation to lie. What do you think?
Definitely not fixed as in Foreman laid down, but there is a stink to so many of Ali’s bigger wins, & he was so supported in Zaire, & so perceived to be in need of trickery as a major underdog, that I wouldn’t be in the least shocked if something was up.
The ropes were REALLY loose--that can't be denied! And Ali certainly used that to his advantage. But ultimately, I think Ali's brilliant "rope a dope" strategy combined with the Zaire heat emptied George's tank. He was gassed--and Ali was able to put him away as a result. (I think Foreman came into that fight overconfident and Ali got in his head--George was simply outfought and outthought that night!!)
Your last sentence is a mic drop. Also George wasn’t used to someone coming right out and unloading on him without fear. No he couldn’t have done it for 15 rounds which is why he went to the ropes, but aside from rounds 13 and 14 in Manila where he was probably acting on sheer instinct, that may have been Ali’s last gasp as a really stout puncher. He hammered George in that fight, was swiveling his head. (Weren’t his hands healthy that night?)
The ropes were meant for a bigger ring. They were simply an ill fit due to a mistake. The ropes could only be tightened so much without breaking the turnbuckles. The ring (per ref Clayton’s estimate) was only 16 ft IIRC. Such a small ring combined with a soft, slow canvas were features that would’ve ordinarily been considered to be very much in Foreman’s favour. Foreman was great at cutting the ring and he had so much less ring to cut off in Zaire. The soft canvas impaired Ali’s ability to dance and move himself out of harm’s way. Enter the rope a dope. Ali simply adapted to the given conditions better than George.
Ali both outsmarted and laid some traumatizing mental ju ju on his ass. Opening up with the rights in the first round, all the while bullying, was a stroke of ring genius. Foreman was astonished at the impertinence. He was no Frazier in terms of sublimating his anger into focused sharpshooting. Ali mentally knocked him down every round.
Ali outboxed and out manoeuvred Foreman he shook him up several times and simply had too much savvy for him. Watch the fight.
This is ridiculous. First of all George had stamina problems. He just did. Watch the Lyle fight he looked dead by round 4. Ali’s camp loosened the rope. That much is true. That’s not rigging a fight. Water tasting like medicine is proof of nothing. Maybe he shouldn’t have drank any nasty tasting water. I can’t stand ridiculous allegations. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. U don’t ruin a man’s rep w nothing.
At that level of competition, I find, “a mistake” which happens to benefit the popular, heavy underdog hard to swallow.
One thing no one has mentioned yet is that Foreman complained of the water in his corner, & Dick Saddler immediately joined Ali’s team after the fight - having spent years in Foreman’s camp. Why was he welcomed so readily into Ali’s team?
It's not like Sadler walked away from Foreman immediately after the fight and signed up with Ali instead. He split with Foreman some months later because Foreman fired him. Months after that, Ali took him on as an adviser.