There is some controversy over some of the decisions in Ali's reign as champion ( most notably Jimmy Young, Ken Norton and Earnie Shavers) I happen to think Ali won against Young and Shavers. I scored the third Norton - Ali fight 8-7 to Norton but had it even going into the last round. I feel that the most controversial decision would have been the scoring in the Thrilla in Manilla had it lasted one more round and gone to the scorecards. I mean the scoring at the end of the 14th round had Ali winning by a wide margin. It wasnt even close. Yet so many consider this fight as the best heavyweight fight of all time. The scoring was 166-160, 166-162, 167-162. One judge only gave Frazier 4 rounds in the entire fight. I happen to think it was a very close fight. Its only in rounds 12-14 that Ali begins to dominate due to Joe's blindness. I know the scores now are irrelevant but I viewed the fight as a close contest and think there would have been a lot of controversery had it gone one more round. I had the fight 8-6 at the end of the 14th round in favour of Ali. Very close fight in my opinion up until the last two rounds.
I've devoted the last forty years of my life to complaining about the chronic favoritism that Ali received from judges and refs. And with the fortieth anniversary of Ali-Norton III coming up next month, it's on my mind as much as always. Ironically, however, I don't have a major complaint about the Thrilla scoring. I think this is the one fight in the series in which Ali had a decisive edge. And I can't even accuse him of holding, because he didn't that much in this fight. I think Joe won some of the middle rounds, but that overall Ali was well in front. I wish Joe could've lasted that final round, but Futch really had no choice. I am very firmly in the camp that sees the first fight as by far the best in the series.
I thought it was close too. I guess a lot of people have Ali winning a lot of the rounds with his punches to Frazier's head and don't give as much weight to Frazier's consistent body attack (not that Frazier wasn't hooking to Ali's head too). It's subjective. And just because the rounds are close it doesn't mean you should alternate the scoring to make the scoreline close. If you have one fighting gaining a small edge in a series of rounds it can add up to a big edge.
The 166-160 score was a bit over the top but the same can be said of the judge in their first bout who had it 11-4 in rounds for Frazier.
First bout was decisively in Fraziers favor. After nearly stopping Ali in round 11 Joe had the bout won as Ali was all in. 9-6 Second bout was in Ali's favor but fairly close. 7-5 Third bout I've studied extensively and Joes work was not scored in his favor. This bout was even after 11 rounds of fighting. Ali was actually quite hurt in round 11 although the blow was never mentioned by Dunphy. Ali however came on in rounds 13-14 as Joe could barely throw a punch he was so exhausted.
Im a bigger Frazier fan than Ali and my sympathy lies with him but I thought it was an easy fight to score and widest for Ali of the three. I thought fight 2 was close and could have been a draw or a DQ (for Ali's holding), Frazier clearly won the first, never understood the wingnuts who claim that Ali could have won that.
I'm a huge Frazier fan but every time I watch the thrilla I have a hard time giving him more that 3 or 4 rounds. Not that I sit down to score the fight but Ali just landed so many punches in every round it is hard to score too many for Joe. But Joe sure put a lot of hurt on Ali in the fight
There were so many amazing round in Manila. Ali would start a round with those blinding flurries to Joe`s head. He was really sitting down and putting some force on those shots. By mid round though Frazier usually had Ali on the ropes and he was just working him over on the inside. Both to the body and the head. They were not as flashy but those were brutal shots. Those kind of rounds can be hard to score. I guess it depends on the judge and what type of fighting gets his attention. I will say Joe Frazier finished many of those rounds stronger than Ali. I think the Ali was probably ahead but not by as wide a margin as the officials had it.
I recall Frazier winning 5 and 6 pretty big and coming out early in round 7 and landing a big right hand to Ali`s head. Ali then switched gears and got on is toes and blunted Joe`s momentum just enough. The mark of a great boxer with an off the charts Ring IQ. He knew what he had to do on the fly he did it.
Joe won rounds 3,5,6,9 and 10 easily in my opinion and I gave him round 11 too. The myth that Ali won the first 4 rounds easily is a myth because Joe dominates round 3. Ali was going to win on my scorecard anyway I just think it was close and maybe Joe's punches are less noticeable as they are shorter but just as worthy in terms of point scoring.
Yeah, there's this myth even among people who are big boxing buffs who otherwise have a lot of knowledge that a 120-108 fight can't be competitive and close (for a 12-rounder) -- each round could be razor-edged by the winning fighter and every round very, very chose, but each of the three judges could also correctly think that fighter won the round. I sometimes see comments like "at least one judge should have given it to ____ (the fighter that loses a unanimous decision)" and shake my head. How does that work, exactly? Should the judges get together and one of them say, "Well, I had it for Fighter A, but since it was close (or since a lot of the rounds were close) I'll take the short straw this time and give it to the guy I actually thought lost." Makes no sense.
Ali won four of the first five rounds. Joe won four of the next five rounds. Round 11 was a pivotal round in this fight as it was in 1971. Joe seriously hurt Ali with a short hook to the head. Ali seemed to sag and just stand there as Joe teed off with hook after hook. Ali then held on for dear life, broke, and out of nowhere started firing short straight rights to Fraziers head. Joe then finished strong making this round even. So on my card it was 5-5-1 after eleven. Ali shaded round 12 and won decisively rounds 13 and 14. So 8-5-1 Ali after 14.
had it 8-6 Ali after 14. Frazier won the majority of the middle, but after 12, Ali was taking it to him.
