Was there ever an ATG who achieved so little when champion, as Foreman ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by GordonGarner65, Aug 14, 2019.


  1. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This would depend on whether you value Liston's annihilation of Patterson in the rematch over Foreman's destruction's of Norton and Roman. It would be an interesting question actually.
     
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  2. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cincinnati Cobra Full Member

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    I'd rate Norton and Patterson close to eachother at HW (Top 20), Foreman has more defences has the second reign, I think that has to count for something. I'd say Foreman takes it.
     
  3. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Thomas, Page...back in the day they railed against Holmes and said he ducked them. Yet Larry beat the guys who beat them. Thomas, Page, and Coetzee could never seem to sustain the intensity, drive, eye of the big kittie, whatevah.

    What I mean is, Holmes dominated that division so completely it's no surprise the other alphabet organizations featured props for champions (I do give Weaver credit for the title defenses against then-highly ranked contenders).
     
  4. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Well-Known Member Full Member

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    That's about what I rate them, though I should mention I have Bowe above all but Foreman among the names included. And that's taking into account fully that Patterson won the title twice...so did Bowe, and he never got smacked all over the ring as a champion.
     
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  5. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Foreman probably fought the toughest competition the sport has seen in that short timeframe. Hammers undefeated champion Frazier. Softie defense and slaughters Roman. Gets rid of Norton in devastating fashion. Then fights Ali.

    Who did better than that? And just how many guys are going undefeated wearing those same shoes?
     
  6. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti The Ad Wolgast of Googling Stuff Full Member

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    Fitzsimmons didn't do much defending any of his titles. A KO over Dan Creedon, and a NWS win over O'Brien, unless you count his title from his fight with Maher.

    Tunney didn't do a lot after winning the HW crown.
     
  7. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Active Member Full Member

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    Fading out the posters Foreman bias, there´s neverthesless some truth in it.

    For example I have no idea how people can put Foreman over Holmes in therms of resume.
    Norton and Frazier were always vulnerable to power.

    What Foreman rather accomplished is going 40 - 0 (37 KOs) against that field. Only Tyson and Wilder dublicated something like this so far, while Tyson and Wilder went farer into title defenses still knocking guys out.

    In therms of resume, what Heavyweight ATG did less? Bowe (for some no ATG) and Liston come to mind.
    Maybe Dempsey, who defended 5 times and Tunney, who is no HW ATG for some.
    Most definately Liston, who didn´t even beat 2 different boxers at a defensive and gave young Clay no good rumble.

    Again this comes down who was an ATG....

    Thread worth question: Who´d go 41-0 including Ali?

    I´d say: Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe, Vitali Klitschko, Mike Tyson (close with Ali, but gives him a better fight than GF for sure), Deontay Wilder (close against Ali too), Tyson Fury (doesn´t knock Norton and Frazier out in that fashion), Joe Louis (who might very well give all three of them a beating)

    Beating Norton and Frazier is less task than beating the 100% determined in shape Ali.
     
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  8. Flash24

    Flash24 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It's all about timing sometimes really. Sometimes fighters that are ATG's come along when their was a truly a special ATG in their way. Take for instance T.Hearns , Hearns would've gone undefeated his entire welter career if there was no R.Leonard, and went on to win the Middle Championship if that road block named Hagler wasn't in the way. Liston, Frazier, Foreman have quite a few more title defenses if there was no Ali. Gomez wins the the featherweight championship if their was no Sanchez. M.Taylor would've had more successful title defenses at jr.welter (esp when considering the beating he received from Chavez shortened his career.) if he didn't fight Chavez. Arguello wins and have multiple defenses of the jr . welterweight title if their was no Pryor. (Again, the beating he received from Pryor shortened his career ) So , sometimes its not the number of defenses , sometimes its the misfortune of coming along when their was an even more dominate champion.
     
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  9. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Active Member Full Member

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    The question might rather be which HW ATGs didn´t have that special guy in their way when they lost.
     
  10. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Loaded question from a guy who consistently makes biased posts every time he logs in.

    Here's a better question: How many champions had to defend their belt against a Muhammad Ali caliber opponent and won?

    Follow up question: how many hw champions fought 4x in a 2 year period and 3 of those opponents were arguably hall of famers and all 4 of them ranked in the top 10?
     
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  11. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Idealism must not be staunched by safety Full Member

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    I know right? Liston is such an inferior old athlete. Stiverne's fat folds of fury would knock him out in 3
     
  12. GordonGarner65

    GordonGarner65 Active Member Full Member

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    That's a good post.
    Worth a note that GF beat some awfully weak opponents in his run to the title. But this post is about once he got the title.
    He beat a stiff then Norton who walked backwards in a straight line. Second reign GF fought nobody any good.
     
  13. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Norton is Holmes's best win.
     
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  14. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Well-Known Member Full Member

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    How about Dempsey? Great fighter but crap title reign with inactivity and defences against underwhelming heavyweight opposition. Foreman's massacre of Norton singlehandedly trumps the total of Jack's achievements in his defences for me.
     
  15. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That was not Foreman's fault. He lost to Ali and Ali held the title. Although his second career was a bit overrated. He lost to Evander and Morrison and then beat Moorer who was weak chinned and not a great fighter at heavy.. Foreman is a little overrated in skills but his power is not overrated. The guy could punch and he was strong.
     


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