Was there ever an ATG who achieved so little when champion, as Foreman ?

This would depend on whether you value Liston's annihilation of Patterson in the rematch over Foreman's destruction's of Norton and Roman. It would be an interesting question actually.

 

I'd rate Norton and Patterson close to eachother at HW (Top 20), Foreman has more defences has the second reign, I think that has to count for something. I'd say Foreman takes it.

 

Thomas, Page...back in the day they railed against Holmes and said he ducked them. Yet Larry beat the guys who beat them. Thomas, Page, and Coetzee could never seem to sustain the intensity, drive, eye of the big kittie, whatevah.

What I mean is, Holmes dominated that division so completely it's no surprise the other alphabet organizations featured props for champions (I do give Weaver credit for the title defenses against then-highly ranked contenders).

 

That's about what I rate them, though I should mention I have Bowe above all but Foreman among the names included. And that's taking into account fully that Patterson won the title twice...so did Bowe, and he never got smacked all over the ring as a champion.

 

Foreman probably fought the toughest competition the sport has seen in that short timeframe. Hammers undefeated champion Frazier. Softie defense and slaughters Roman. Gets rid of Norton in devastating fashion. Then fights Ali.

Who did better than that? And just how many guys are going undefeated wearing those same shoes?

 

Fitzsimmons didn't do much defending any of his titles. A KO over Dan Creedon, and a NWS win over O'Brien, unless you count his title from his fight with Maher.

Tunney didn't do a lot after winning the HW crown.

 

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Thread worth question: Who´d go 41-0 including Ali?

I´d say: Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe, Vitali Klitschko, Mike Tyson (close with Ali, but gives him a better fight than GF for sure), Deontay Wilder (close against Ali too), Tyson Fury (doesn´t knock Norton and Frazier out in that fashion), Joe Louis (who might very well give all three of them a beating)

Beating Norton and Frazier is less task than beating the 100% determined in shape Ali.

 

It's all about timing sometimes really. Sometimes fighters that are ATG's come along when their was a truly a special ATG in their way. Take for instance T.Hearns , Hearns would've gone undefeated his entire welter career if there was no R.Leonard, and went on to win the Middle Championship if that road block named Hagler wasn't in the way. Liston, Frazier, Foreman have quite a few more title defenses if there was no Ali. Gomez wins the the featherweight championship if their was no Sanchez. M.Taylor would've had more successful title defenses at jr.welter (esp when considering the beating he received from Chavez shortened his career.) if he didn't fight Chavez. Arguello wins and have multiple defenses of the jr . welterweight title if their was no Pryor. (Again, the beating he received from Pryor shortened his career ) So , sometimes its not the number of defenses , sometimes its the misfortune of coming along when their was an even more dominate champion.

 

The question might rather be which HW ATGs didn´t have that special guy in their way when they lost.

 

Loaded question from a guy who consistently makes biased posts every time he logs in.

Here's a better question: How many champions had to defend their belt against a Muhammad Ali caliber opponent and won?

Follow up question: how many hw champions fought 4x in a 2 year period and 3 of those opponents were arguably hall of famers and all 4 of them ranked in the top 10?

 

I know right? Liston is such an inferior old athlete. Stiverne's fat folds of fury would knock him out in 3

 

How about Dempsey? Great fighter but crap title reign with inactivity and defences against underwhelming heavyweight opposition. Foreman's massacre of Norton singlehandedly trumps the total of Jack's achievements in his defences for me.

 

That was not Foreman's fault. He lost to Ali and Ali held the title. Although his second career was a bit overrated. He lost to Evander and Morrison and then beat Moorer who was weak chinned and not a great fighter at heavy.. Foreman is a little overrated in skills but his power is not overrated. The guy could punch and he was strong.

 

His first reign was good. He destroyed Frazier in a huge upset, then destroyed Norton. He happened to lose to a guy, Ali, who is a better ATG than him.

Then, he won a second title at a crazy advanced age against all odds.

I'd say he did pretty well for himself.