Was Tom Molineaux American Champion.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Reason123, Dec 30, 2015.


  1. Reason123

    Reason123 Not here for the science fiction. Full Member

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    Hello,

    I can't remember where but I have read where Tom Molineaux claimed to be the boxing champion of America. Is there any truth to that at all? Also, if it is wouldn't that make him the first black man to be a champion in boxing?

    Also are there any good books or anything on Molineaux?

    Thank You.
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    The American title was such a vague concept back then, that it is hard to assess.
     
  3. Reason123

    Reason123 Not here for the science fiction. Full Member

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    Couldn't it be kind of like first come first served? As far as I know no one else laid claim to be champion of America but Molineaux at that time. So Molineaux wouldn't necessarily be wrong if he was the first and only one to lay claim to the championship. Especially since no one in America could probably prove him wrong. England also didn't seem to question his claim at all.
     
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I think the title picture was pretty much the Wild West, in any country apart from the UK back then.

    Having said that, if there was anybody who could have posed a serious challenge to Molineux, they would almost certainly have gone after the bigger purses in the UK.
     
  5. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  6. Reason123

    Reason123 Not here for the science fiction. Full Member

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    Thank You, Boilermaker and Janitor! The link works fine.
     
  7. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    As we all know, Nat Fleischer, having researched the matter, found out that it was actually Tom's father who founded boxing in the United States, together with four of his brothers. :nut See pages 33-35 of "Black Dynamite. Volume I", well, at least, those are the pages in my 1938 print.

    On a side note, I still wonder how much faith can be put in Pierce Egan's description of the 1st Cribb-Molineaux battle. Henry Miles commented on it with derision in Pugilistica, that it was purely the result of Egan's imagination, and I've seen no mention of those things that Egan describes in the two contemporary reports of the bout that I have.

    One was printed next day (December 19, the fight taking place on December 18, Henry Miles dating it the same) in multiple London newspapers, including The Times, and reported that it lasted 44 rounds, occupying 55 minutes.

    The other, signed by "An Amateur", and which is the same as Miles used in Pugilistica, had the fight last 33 rounds.

    Kevin R. Smith in 'Black Genesis' even claimed Miles' report was borrowed from the one printed by London Times and supposedly authored by Bill Oxberry (no idea how he had come to this conclusion about Oxberry being the author). Except, it wasn't, they differ even in number of rounds fought, and very different in details. Pierce Egan claimed the bout had taken place on December 10 (not December 18 which is correct date), and lasted 40 rounds, that's a third version of the bout's duration. Also, London Times' report only mentioned the outer ring being broken in the 20th round, no mention of any injury to the fighters caused by people who broke in, such was described by Egan in his description of the 19th (!) round.

    All three versions agreed on 55 minutes, though.