Was Willard the worst ?

Grasp the reputation as in consider the facts, the statements, and the admissions before lumping that particular career in with Seldon's.

My previous posts about Carnera do anything but offer circular reasoning -they are probably the equivalent of a 10 page thesis.

What I have stated is that you have to be more careful with Primo than with any other top level fighter in modern history when it comes to measuring his effectiveness and worth as a fighter. Feel free to assess him if you like, I will even join you, but not without serious astericks and footnotes. [There's some common ground.]

I don't think it was either fair or accurate to state that I rationalized or sugar coated anything in this thread. Anyway, I wouldn't question your intellect, because I've read your posts and they are of high quality overall, which was I assumed that you didn't read my previous posts.

fair enough.

It is pretty safe to say that Golota was a headcase: his trainers, the evidence (our eyes) and common sense screams this.

La Cosa Nostra is crippled and has been for decades. Keep in mind that during the 30s, 40s, and 50s, it was on the rise. The FBI denied the very existence of any national organization until 1957. That allowed them to thrive. They don't thrive anymore. Other forces have come in to the field but it isn't the same and can't be equated as easily as some may think.

--Less sophisticated, not unsophisticated. But they still had plenty of willing partners and associates in managers, promoters, police, politicians, etc.

I see it differently. They did what worked and they did it with some degree of impunity. They were forced to get more sophisticated and indirect when the heat increased. Simplicity is efficiency. You do what you can get away with.

Granted.

I don't disagree here, but see it as a matter of degrees. These guys operated easily in times gone by because the government was way behind in their own sophistication regarding these organizations in terms of information and infiltration, etc.

I see it as a matter of probability. There is enough information on Carnera's career that make it more probably that his career is more suspect than say, Arturo Gatti's or anyone else that I can think of.

 

Well, sh*t, don't let me criticize you -it would've taken you 2 hours! I was sitting around all weekend if it wasn't obvious.

We agreed more than disagreed when we got down to it anyway.

 

Wha?! Read my damn previous posts!!!