Watched Leonard/Duran 2 last night.

it's old news like cable tv

 

Good post. I agree. I don't think it was a matter of these guys splitting two fights. When Ray won he won easily against Duran. He just had to fight his fight. All people have to do is watch the two fights side by side to see how Ray fights differently.

 

Ray was pissed off and let Duran get into his head prior to the first fight with all of his demeaning, bravado tactics. He's said it was Duran who introduced him to mind games and psychological warfare and he was goaded into fighting Duran's fight before the bell even rang. He should've been KTFO, but he wasn't. He took his shots and Duran came away with a clean decision. Second time around he vowed not to fight him flat footed and he humiliated him.

 

i think the humiliation really was in duran's reaction. The judges and most people's scorecards don't have it a sweep for leonard or anything. It was relatively close but duran but probably see where it was going and he just couldn't connect...leonard likely would've pulled ahead and won wide and duran didn't handle that prospect well

 

..

 

Lots of stuff was going on, but what was clear is the Duran was getting schooled that night.

A reasonable scorecard has Leonard up 3-4 points. A shutout isn't out of the question. The judges were being generous to Duran. And it was starting to get bad. A one-sided clinic, if it wasn't one already, was on the horizon.

Excuses or not, such a win would have totally overshadowed the first fight. Roberto was frustrated that a guy he beat the tar out of and clearly beat could come back so intelligently and seize such a clear edge. He bowed out rather than take the lesson he was in line for.

I don't view it as quitting in the traditional sense("Spare me the punishment, I can't take anymore of it.") or a breaking of heart, I consider it a misguided and unintentionally cowardly act of pride. Duran didn't want what he knew he was about to receive, and it was about not wanting that humiliation more than anything else.

No Mas doesn't make Duran a quitter, but it makes Leonard a clear as day winner that night. No Mas is proof that Leonard wasn't gonna come anywhere near losing that night, and the only guy who could have done something about it thought so too.

 

great post

 

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Maybe these guys ?

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Leonard fought exactly the fight he and Dundee said they were going to fight in Montreal. And lost.


The variable in the two fights was Duran, not Leonard.

When both men were at their best, Duran won.

 

I thought Leonard looked a little sharper in the 2nd fight.

 

He did. But he had more opportunity to look good there.

He was facing a lesser Duran.

 

Take your pick as to which man was greater. They are that close.

Once and for all, Leonard and Dundee mapped out the right strategy in Montreal: Ray was bigger, in the prime of youth, and could punch; Durán was a lightweight and considered very possibly at the tail end of his career.

Yet Durán would not be denied and warped the universe, as only the very great do.

The second fight was relatively close, even with Leonard's overhyped change in strategy. It was no shutout, no schooling, nothing of the sort; just a fast guy running and shoeshining for points.

Even so, Roberto was on Leonard, but couldn't pull the trigger. With his stomach ailments and subpar conditioning that night, he was clearly in no shape to get the job done. But make no mistake: Roberto defeated Roberto in New Orleans and Leonard was the surprised and elated beneficiary.

There is something in the Latino psyche that dictates: "Real men don't run." Durán didn't respect Leonard any more for his gaudy showboating; it wasn't like he was whimpering, begging for mercy. I believe he said, waving a glove in disgust, something like, "Ya no quiero pelear con ese payaso." Translation: "I don't wanna fight that clown anymore." Translation: "I'm not in shape to chase down this runner, so I might as well quit now."

Yes, Roberto was foolish and completely nearsighted as to historical implications, whereas Leonard was cerebral, entirely practical about the whole thing. Roberto partied while Ray cooked his revenge. And Durán reaped disaster while Leonard got a ****** off his back.

I agree the first fight is by far the most significant. I am not sure Montreal Durán would not have walked down and eventually edged out a New Orleans Leonard. The New Orleans affair was reasonably close and there was a universe yet to be fought; Durán's polished savagery might have won the day--perhaps even brought the proud Leonard to brawl--as actually happened in Montreal.

Leonard beat Hearns, who destroyed Durán; but Durán may have frustrated a younger version of Hagler--who destroyed Hearns--more than Leonard did a slipping Marvin. Leonard has his Lalonde but Durán has his Moore and his Barkley (who destroyed Hearns, who beat Leonard in their rematch.) And Durán slayed his dragons as a smaller, much older man.

Leonard's victory over Hearns does it for me. What skills, what coolness under pressure, what a will to win, what a thinker in the ring! Sugar Ray Leonard deserves the moniker and is one of the very greatest fighters I have ever seen in real time.

Take your pick as to which man was greater. They are that close.

 

:deal


That's what my last two posts said.

But you said it more eloquently.:yep

 

Wow! :yikes Talk about parallel thinking there, bud!

Guess "great minds think alike"!