Watched Leonard/Duran 2 last night.

IMO, you should be awarded 5000 bonus posts for that last effort.

I will speak to the mods.

 

I don't understand how Leonard-LEONARD HIMSELF-can say "I knew he was going to be out of shape and balloon up in weight, so I got the rematch right away" and people still act as if Duran was a one-trick pony who couldn't ever beat a faster fighter or a mobile opponent, as though Leonard was just too dumb to adjust after 15 rounds and had left his speed under his bed at home.

Sure, give Leonard his credit for changing up his tactics and negotiating in his favor, but it's an insult to the sport to deny the reality of Leonard's advantage that Leonard himself has confessed to.

(Also props to prime for a fair and no-bull**** post that laid the legacies of both men out perfectly.)

 

:rofl

As our good old friends J. Garfield and Burt say, "The check is in the mail!"

And thanks.

 

This is very true.

In Montreal, Leonard tried to fight Durán, using every single weapon at his command...and lost.

In New Orleans, he thought better of it, switched to running and tapping and, against a bloated ghost, got his cherished W.

And thanks as well! :good

 

Excellent post, although I do think Duran holds the clear edge in greatness.

 

Top read:yep

Snatching victory from the jaws of certain defeat aginst Hearns is for me one of the greatest finishes i've ever seen, he sucked it up from the gut & found a way or more so made a way too scale the vertical wall & dispatch Hearns. I always show that 13th round bombardment he unloaded onto Hearns in that do or die attack to anyone who'se never seen leonard fight.

The fear of certain defeat & staring down into the abyss makes a man find his true self & that for me was an incredible acheivement that night & one of the greatest endings in history in relation to how this fight was panning out. There was an pure honesty about Leonard that night when he knew "this is it, i've got to stop him", no poncing & posing around doing his faux ALI impersinations in the early part of the fight. "Yer Blowin it kid" as dundee said at the end of the 12th & out he stepped & produced the goods in brutal fashion which is something only champions can do.

If only Leonard for me was just that, honest, he did'nt need to plot & scheme, he was good enough to face any & all in that tough era without having to resort too what i view as unnessessry machinations. It's not by malice or chance that ray is the least populer of the fab 4 when you'd think he'd be atop the pile. People have long memmories & they may salute the fact that he was victorious but it's way he went about it. Just like Diego Maradonna's goal against England in the World Cup in 86, he used his hand to score "The so called HAND of GOD" the greatest soccer player in the world by far cheated & got away with it & that will always overshadow his real greatness.

He did'nt have to do that as he was better than that. Rules & guidlines are all about a man testing himself within the set limits, the idea of getting an edge for me erodes the basic meaning of competing on a level playing field & showing what you've got to yourself & your peers. Unfortunatly that was'nt rays way of doing things more the pity. Leonard showed he had what it took when pressed to the edge of the abyss & if only he'd fought Duran in New Orleans in the Jan & on a somewhat level playing field i'd have not one once of problem with him defeating Duran if he showed what he showed that night against Hearns, but he did'nt & thats that.

 

I have them both in the Top Ten. If I were to actually rank them numerically, Duran most likely and rightfully would place above SRL. Still, to be in that class is near equal greatness considering how many superb fighters there have been over the last century-plus. Divisionally, Duran #1 at Lightweight. Leonard #2-3 at Welter.

 

Thanks for that expansion of the first post. This one was superb and better explains your viewpoint.

 

At the end of fight No. 1 SRL had that sheepish grin on his face when he tried to touch gloves with Duran.

SRL knew he had lost that one.

 

I agree the first fight was more significant.

But how the hell anybody can have New Orleans close is beyond me. One guy lands and controls just about every round, the other guy doesn't.

Not close.

 

I still give him a lot of credit for trading with Duran as much as he did in the first fight. Third bout out of natural weight or not, SRL ran a huge risk of getting his ass KTFO by the superbeast. The way he fought goes against everything people who hate SRL say about him. And has been brilliantly pointed out multiple times over, the Hearns fight truly put to rest any questions of his greatness. Whether he could've went about things differently is more than arguable, but greatness nonetheless. Another thing that stands up to a detractor's book of bad marks if that SRL didn't eek out decisions in many fights. He stopped Benitez, stopped Hearns, stopped Kalule, stopped Lalonde. That makes a huge difference. It erases a lot of doubt and argument.

 

That is where we differ. The fights are on youtube for anyone to see. Put the videos of fights one and two side by side and start the fights and if the variable is Duran, then why is Ray's footwork so different in the fights starting in round one in each fight. The evidence is there. It was all Ray. And how was Ray at his best in his second title defense of his first title? That is like saying Toney was at his best when he beat Nunn, yet Mike McCallum said Toney learned and by the 3rd fight he was so much better defensively than the first.
People who favor Duran want to say when Ray was at his best and for obvious reasons put it when he first fought Duran, yet that is impossible. He did not know the whole game and was relatively inexperienced. His peak should have been around 1983 or 1984, but he retired late in 1982 for the first time. So his best superfight performance was Hearns.

 

I wonder if mag gets bored of posting the same stuff every day?

 

Not at all. It is what I believe, and to be honest usually what starts me saying opinions about Roberto Duran is in response to what someone else says. For example, I rarely come out and say my opinion about Duran not being 1-10 ATG out of the blue. I honestly don't think I have ever done that. If someone says he is greater than Ray, I want to respond since honestly I do not see how it is possible.

I am rather surprised that since you guys post on a message board (which is about different opinions and views) that some of you seem to want me or others (who don't fall in line with what you think about Duran) to suppress their opinions. If you guys don't get bored then why would I. And there are 20 of you guys saying the same stuff back to me. It is the nature of message boards.

 

Important post--with very few peers over the years of debate on this subject--for its candid honesty from a proud bona fide partisan!

You speak idealistically--something I can relate to--but, in truth, I suspect every athlete will try to gain an edge, even if it means toeing the bounds of legality or, in some cases, sadly, crossing it.

Leonard nakedly machinated, but Roberto was an adult, was the champion, and had not one hand tied behind his back.

The old saying goes: "The Devil is not to blame if you make him your partner."