Watching Ali-Liston l for the umpteenth time.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by ThatOne, Jun 19, 2022.

  1. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Now you're just flat out lying. Both Ali and Dundee dismissed the theories of Liston deliberately attempting to blind Ali.

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  2. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I've already proven to you that Liston's shoulder was injured before the bout, and the doctor confirmed his shoulder injury was genuine.

    On one hand, we have a well respected doctor of the Miami Boxing Commision. On the other hand we have you, a dishonest clown who thinks Wepner was "one of the top fighters of that era".

    I wonder who to believe :lol:

    This thread has gone off the rails.
     
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  3. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    His face is that bad? Really?
     
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  4. kaapa2

    kaapa2 New Member Full Member

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    I'd argue Liston looked a lot better for example in round 2, where Liston wasn't nearly as fatigued as in round 5. Liston got in a couple of really hard shots and was slipping and parrying Ali's jab beautifully. Liston also hit home with his own jab quite often and Ali got even caught in ropes for a couple of times.

    Personally I can't score round 2 for Ali, although I do admit that I have a bias towards Sonny.
     
  5. ThatOne

    ThatOne Active Member Full Member

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    Our recollections are different. This is Ali's state of mind at the time:


    THE FIGHT: Liston could not handle Ali's speed, left jabs and quick rights to the head. Ali almost quit after the fourth round, contending there had been foul play. During the round, Ali got something in his eyes, probably liniment from Liston's shoulder, which the champion later claimed he had injured.

    "Cut my gloves off, I want to prove to the world there's dirty work afoot," trainer Angel Dundee says Ali told him in the corner. Dundee refused, and Ali stayed out of harm's way in the fifth round and became champion when Liston quit on his stool after the sixth.


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    Maybe in the fullness of time Ali came to the realization it likely wasn't intentional but in the heat of the moment he thought it was and as far as further motivation that's all that really matters.

    PEACE
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022 at 6:41 AM
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  6. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    "Liston looked like he went 15 rounds with every heavyweight champion in history." was far worse imo :lol: :lol:

    This has to be one of the worst threads in ESB history, nearly all of the replies have been absolutely terrible. :lol: :lol:
     
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  7. MoneyMay1

    MoneyMay1 Member Full Member

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    It doesnt matter if the blinding was deliberate or accidental. What matters is that it occurred causing Ali to be blind for a round. I don't even count that round when scoring because of the circumstances. Ali won the fight 4-1 in the legitimate rounds and dominated all of the rounds he won. Liston was hitting air all night.

    There has never been a HW champ in history before Liston who quit on his stool and none since. Especially in the 6th round.
     
  8. MoneyMay1

    MoneyMay1 Member Full Member

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    Picture of Liston's face in the THIRD round. He was getting beat up from the jump.

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  9. ThatOne

    ThatOne Active Member Full Member

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    That poor man got the licking of his life.
     
  10. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Liston was 3 round shape for that fight in Miami. For whatever reason he wasn't in fighting condition. That's isn't a knock on Ali. He Boxed nicely and was prepared for the best version of Liston.

    Ali beat him easily.
     
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  11. ThatOne

    ThatOne Active Member Full Member

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    Like his understudy George Foreman he paid for his hubris.
     
  12. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    No, Jerry Izenberg confirmed it. He talked to a man in who worked in Liston's corner. He told Izenberg that they put the ointment on Sonny's gloves from a bottle and the guy threw the bottle under the ring. There was no motive that Izenberg could see why make up a story like that.

    On the other hand Angelo Dundee can't really be used as a credible reference when it comes to anything regarding Ali.
     
  13. bboyrei

    bboyrei Member Full Member

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    Wouldn’t say it was a domination but a clear Ali victory. It was the perfect timing for an upset, Liston aging and clearly unmotivated after clearing the division and getting the championship that was denied to him for years. Definitely could have been a lot more competitive if he was motivated and had no shoulder issues.
     
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  14. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jerry Izenberg loses credibility when he says Liston also used a substance on his glove to defeat Cleveland Williams and Eddie Machen. Something Williams himself denied, and had it happened certainly would've put a damper on their friendship.

    Eddie himself said nothing of it until four years later after the Ali bout. Machen was desperate for a title shot (to the point where had a mental breakdown after failing to defeat Cleveland Williams eliminating himself from a title shot). If their was anything in these rumors, Machen would've shouted it from a roof top?

    Why is that? :lol:

    In any case, can Ali be trusted when he says he doesn't believe Liston deliberately blinded him or is he not a "credible reference" either?
     
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  15. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Fair enough, I guess we can throw away Ali's wins over Williams (literally shot) Terrell (also blind in one eye) and Patterson (bad back).

    This simply isn't true. Liston landed many power punches that would've knocked out lesser men.


    The more you post, the more your lack of knowledge shows. Jess Willard quit on his stool.
     
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