Watching Ali-Liston l for the umpteenth time.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by ThatOne, Jun 19, 2022.

  1. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah that would be a fairly decent exaggeration!
     
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  2. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Probably the most balanced post in the thread. You could also add that Ali, even as a fledgling, was probably the worst stylistic matchup for Liston you could ever find.
     
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  3. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Am I not “balanced” enough for you JT? :lol:
     
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  4. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You were 2" to the left of centre!
     
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  5. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Oh, and i did say "probably" before you get too worked up!!! :lol:
     
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  6. Pugguy

    Pugguy Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Scorecards would be nice:
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    Liston did have preexisting shoulder issues for which he was receiving treatment leading into the fight. Air swings during the fight likely exacerbated the issues. Liston's shoulder issues/injury were reconfirmed by medical examination after the fight.

    The alleged dipping of Liston's gloves has been debunked, including by Dundee himself, as Swag said. Any similar allegations against Liston came after the fact of the Miami fight - bandwagon jumps to excuse earlier losses.

    Ali stunned with his performance, particularly since it went totally against most forecasts. It's the closest I've seen Ali come to boxing "conventionally" - he wasn't going to screw around with Sonny. An ill prepared and complacent Liston still got his relative share of licks in however. Post fight, Dundee attested to the marks/bruises on Ali's body from Liston's body punching. In the same round Ali wobbled Liston, round 4, Liston also clearly hurt Ali later in the piece (non-liniment round).

    Many, ultimately dominating performances, don't necessarily involve big leads (technically) in the early round scoring. Momentum is the key though and momentum was more in Ali's favor than Liston's at the point of Sonny's retirement on his stool. It's not out of the question to view it as a reasonably close fight after only 6 rounds but perhaps project that Ali would exponentially increase his lead thereafter.

    Had Liston not been injured and still had gas in the tank - the later rounds would've been interesting. Even relative to his own standards, Ali was running on high octane fuel. There had to be a slow down point - even if only temporary before Ali got his second wind. Round 6 actually saw Ali that much more flat footed and Liston did connect with some nice shots - IIRC, it was Liston's power pole jab hitting Ali's face that was ironically the last punch of the right.
     
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  7. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Good! As you know, I'm never more balanced than when I'm talking about Sonny Liston or Cleveland Williams.
     
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  8. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What did I say about outclassing me??!!
     
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  9. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    How could i ever forget!!!!!!
     
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  10. Pugguy

    Pugguy Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ha ha, never in a million Swag. I'm a "bad boy", avoid me like a cyclone ranger. :mad:
     
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  11. Rope-a-Dope

    Rope-a-Dope Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Regardless of whatever caused the temporary "blinding" of Ali, Liston must have been totally mentally defeated after being unable to finish Ali off when All couldn't even see him. If a guy can't see you, and you still can't beat him, you're done.
     
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  12. Philly161

    Philly161 "Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless" Full Member

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    I agree it was a one sided fight until the stoppage and an amazing, star making performance.

    I don't believe Liston wins even if his shoulder is fine. Ali loved to woop the big guys like Liston foreman and Terrell
     
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  13. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yep, so clear that the odds and expert's picks were fairly close. Oh, wait...
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2022 at 10:12 AM
  14. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    We know that Liston had a problem with his shoulder and had had few rounds in the last 2-3 years. We also know that he had looked better than ever in his last two fights.

    Those are about as close we come to facts. Was he taking Ali too lightly? Yeah, could well be the case, but the excuses made after the fight have been the same for many a loss. Should they always be taken at face value?
     
  15. Pugguy

    Pugguy Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Interesting that Liston was still installed as a favourite 13-5? for the originally scheduled rematch in Boston - by the time they did fight in Lewiston, Liston was still the favourite but at a much closer 6-5 IIRC. Sonny still the favourite anyway you slice it.
     
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