WBO orders Usyk vs Parker

Eh. A few quibbles.

First, Fury was never going to fight AJ. He's never wanted that fight and he's done everything in his power to avoid it. The one time he and AJ actually had a contract was when Bob Arum and Fury KNEW they were going to have to have a 3rd fight with Wilder. They pretended like they wanted AJ knowing the whole time they didn't and they weren't going to be able to bail on Wilder anyway. All war is deception. And Fury has spent his entire career deceiving people. Hell, RIGHT NOW Fury and AJ could be fighting each other. Instead, Fury is "retired" for the umpteenth time and AJ is in serious talks to fight either Jake Paul or Tony Yoka. What a farce. So nothing Usyk did or didn't do would have gotten those two in the ring together.

Secondly, you act like Usyk was eager to get at Dubois and avoid Hrgovic. This makes zero sense. Dubois is green, sure, but he actually isn't pillow fisted, has great conditioning, is faster than Hrgovic, and is younger. Hrgovic is all-around garbage. I don't have enough bad things to say about that guy. Which is why Dubois ate up everything Hrgovic hit him with and then steamrolled him. Also the headbutts, but Hrgovic was screwed any which way. Gift decision versus Zhang. Looked poor versus a shot to pieces Joe Joyce in his last fight. The guy is the definition of unimpressive. So, I can get with the idea that Usyk wanted Dubois because its better money (though neither guy made much for that fight IIRC; Usyk $5 mill and Dubois $2 mill), but that Usyk wanted to swerve the pillow-fisted statue who gasses halfway through every fight? Yeah, not so much.

And lastly, you're completely forgetting that Usyk is not Fury. He isn't boxing's special wittle boy. This is the dude that constantly has to fight in the other guy's backyard. He's the guy that the boxing establishment never wanted. Yet you're acting like he's getting to pull the strings on the entire HW division. Surely the more logical assumption would be that Frank Warren wants to get Dubois that title shot to be a blocker for Usyk and Usyk agrees to it because it's a way for him to eventually force Fury into a fight. I mean, sorry, but I just can't imagine the Ukrainian guy who speaks poor English is the puppet master pulling all the strings and not the well established, wealthy, and powerful promoters and establishment guys who have been there for decades. If Usyk is this mastermind, he kinda sucks at it because he got absolutely hosed on splits in his big fights. Had to fight AJ for a pittance the 1st time, only got $45 mill for fighting Fury for Undisputed while Fury got $100 mill. Then on the rematch it wasn't like Tyson had to accept 30% or something. Oh no, no, no. It was just 55/45 in Usyk's favor at that point after kicking literally everyone's ass and doing the damn near impossible by beating these guys so convincingly they couldn't rob him.

Usyk always made his intentions clear. He was plotting on owning the HW division as far back as 2008. He stated clearly over and over the only thing he cared about was Undisputed. He stepped into a HW division where the Big 3 were doing everything in their power not to fight each other outside of Wilder v. Fury. Fury made a sport out of avoiding AJ (and every other tough fight). Wilder turned down $100 million from DAZN so he wouldn't have to fight AJ. Usyk shows up and magically fights start happening and even though it takes a couple of years because of Fury's nonsense, we got the first Undisputed fight at HW in 25 years. Yet he's the problem? Seems a stretch, friend.

The real issue is how boxing is set up, the awful sanctioning bodies, and the greedy promoters who also play favorites. Wilder gets to fight can after can after can as the WBC champ because Sulaiman is a rat. Once Fury gets the belt off him, he's able to play all sorts of games too. Sometimes mandatories get called immediately. Sometimes you can let Jermall Charlo hold a belt for over 1,000 days without ever having to defend it. And don't even get me started on the rankings and who gets put into mandatory positions. At this moment in time, Chisora and Wardley are Interim Champs (laughable), Okolie is #1 ranked with the WBC (wut?), Michael Hunter is #1 with the WBA (also wut?), and Moses Itauma who has fought nobody and never been past six rounds is #1 with the WBO (downright criminal). The promoters and the sanctioning bodies are going to do w/e the hell they want to do. So whining and crying about mandatories doesn't hold too much weight with me.

Parker has been a decent yet underwhelming HW. He got to fight for a vacant title where he kinda got gifted a decision versus ol' Gordito Ruiz. He failed miserably versus AJ. He got manhandled by Whyte. He got obliterated by Joyce. He's had plenty of opportunities in his career and failed every time at the top level. So he's got no one to blame but himself if he's not getting the fight he wants. Usyk owes him nothing even though it would be a nice gesture to let him fight for the belts. And Parker absolutely will be given the WBO belt if Usyk doesn't want to fight him. That's already been decided. So he'll be a 2x HW champ while never beating a top HW. He'll probably end up with a decently good payday to fight Itauma unless Whyte pulls off something crazy. Sounds like boxing has been pretty good to him. Plenty of other comparable HWs like Zhang and Joyce never got the opportunity to fight for a title.

 

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one then mate.

 

Kiwi Fish - I like your theory

Usyk may indeed not have had the time to study Parker closely

 

If Usyk does choose to fight Parker it will be a completely one-sided fight & then there'll be people complaining that he took such an easy fight. Just like there are for the Dubois rematch. Parker deserves a shot but he is no threat whatsoever. Usyk would be better off dropping the belt & fighting Kabayel next & then unifying again.

 

Parker.

Always underestimated

Always over-achieves

A danger to all.

 

Okay so I think we are having two slightly different conversations now. I was given a breakdown based on what was at the time of each decision the best available information. Sure, now I am not privy to the inner council of these fighters and everything that goes on behind the scenes, BUT I think it is better to stick to what knowledge was available to each fighter at the time, and not try to apply our 2025 knowledge that was definitely unavailable to them. Also, our personal assessments of fighters, such as Hrgovic, again... it's better to deal with how they were viewed at the time Usyk was facing these decisions.

I'm not going to go through your post line by line as that isn't really fair to you, but let me address each say, block of argument at a time.

Okay let's start with Fury. I think it is fair to say your assessment of him is less than generous. Now I too was pissed off when the Wilder ruling went against Fury and he was forced to fight Wilder for a third time. However, there seems to have been a shifting narrative surrounding this (mainly pushed by Hearn and the Joshua fan channels on YouTube). So, I personally see that situation as Fury signing the contract to fight Joshua with the intention of indeed fighting Joshua for Undisputed and a truck load of cash (there was interest from Vegas, London, and Saudi). Fury loves a pound note more than most, and probably saw himself as the favourite following his landmark win over Wilder 2. Unfortunately for Fury (and us) he signed a contract with Wilder. And just like Fury, he didn't want to stick to it once it became unfavourable to him. Sadly, the American arbiter disagreed (likely COVID-19 complicated the ruling). That is very different from Hearn's narrative that (1) Team Fury (Bob Arum) always knew and told Hearn they wouldn't lose arbitration, and then much later it changed to (2) Team Fury could get out of it if they had wanted to, and that they were just using Joshua to promote Wilder 3---kind of a ridiculous narrative when we take a step back.
At the time, we know Fury had been willing to sign a contract with Joshua. Maybe they were suspicious that it would fall through again, but they have to proceed under positive intentions (to a degree, while protecting their own end of course). And we also know that at that time Warren was trying to clear the path for Undisputed by tie-ing up Usyk with a Joyce fight. I think it is clear both Team Fury and Team Joshua were trying to get it over the line. Now sure, with 2025 knowledge we can say, ah but probably Fury would have just scuppered it last minute, but that is more based on what happened a few years down the line.

That's because I think Usyk was. Not avoid Hrgovic as in he was worried he couldn't beat him, I didn't mean to imply that. More that he didn't want to fight a Top10 rated unbeaten Olympian with little preparation time for very low money. As I said there were two opportunities where Usyk should have fought him, but he kept choosing the path to avoid it. Again, primarily I think it was the money involved wasn't to his liking. I think we can agree on that. Usyk had growing popularity in the UK market ever since he beat Bellew. He followed that with Chisora, and twice against Joshua. At that stage he was becoming a fan favourite with the Brits. Fighting a Brit (Dubois) in Poland was a lot more lucrative than fighting Hrgovic.
Now you can have your opinions of Hrgovic (I know I do), but we also need to deal with what the landscape was again at the time, because that is what Team Usyk was dealing with. Hrgovic had entered the TBRB rankings end of 2019 and the Ring ratings in 2021. Dubois was not on that level. If we are be honest about things, he was seen as an extremely undeserving mandatory challenger following the Lerena fight (with how the British organizers managed him through to victory).

Let's put Fury to one side for a moment (as I have absolutely been fed up with him since the Whyte "negotiations" started).
Well I can agree to a certain extent that boxing establishment would have preferred Joshua or Fury. However, he was still an Olympic gold medalist, he was seen as potentially the greatest CW of all time, and he was lightening rod for supporters of the Ukraine. He was the WBO mandatory, and then the heavyweight champion holding three of the belts since beating Joshua. His very actions demonstrated he was not just some fighter with zero agency, he was making decisions. Fights started happening because Hearn got the Saudis interested in Big Time Boxing (TM) with Ruiz v Joshua 2, that meant it was now Vegas/London/Saudi, it was not because Usyk became champion.

 

I agree with you. But how are smaller nation fighters, like Hrgovic, like Parker, like Usyk, meant to get a title shot if they don't use the ladder system. Usyk used it to get his shot. Now he is using the system to block everyone else. He is doing the same thing we were all getting pissed at Wilder, Joshua, and Fury for doing. Blocking contenders while he negotiates Big Time Boxing fights. And again, I see Usyk as an ATG, but when a champion starts doing that, I will start pointing it out. I did it with Wilder, I did it with Joshua, I did it with Fury, I am doing it with Usyk.

Again, I agree to an extent, but Parker has taken the hard road to get back into position. Zhang and Joyce never getting a title shot is more evidence that we need our champions to stop clogging up the division by not fighting guys climbing the ladder.

I do not put all the blame on Usyk, if there was only one ladder, things would be easier on him. But there are four ladders, and that adds responsibilities and expectation, just as it did for Wlad, just as it did for Joshua.
Usyk is rightfully reaping the rewards of being on top, but he needs to start giving other's opportunities. Not the same names who make him the most money.

 

I don't think that is a conspiracy theory, I think that is extremely likely to be what Team Usyk are/have been doing. Though maybe I say that because it nicely aligns with my long breakdown above yours.

That's why I said it is starting to look like he is taking the Mayweather approach to opponent selection. And it is fine to an extent, especially when he was a challenger. Heck, Fury himself was preparing for years to fight Wlad (and was really paranoid about Wlad getting insights into his game plan). It is expected that title challengers have that advantage over the champion. It's the hardship of being a champion.

But Usyk is champion now, and we didn't really see this approach from Wlad (though I am sure he was studying his future opponents). Even toward the back end of Wlad's career, he was just taking on the opponents one at a time.

So, yeah, I agree with you. And I think what you said here is a lot closer to the truth than some would like to admit:

 

Rumours get louder usyk will vacate his wbo title

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...kQFnoECCIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1HwGxNuHaKwGtkh7ycNo0i

 

I'm hoping that is just a rumour to potentially build hype and gauge reaction. Queensberry posting this today can maybe be read as a good sign, that we will indeed get Usyk v Parker:

This content is protected

Come on Usyk. Give the fans what they want.

 

Parker sure knows how to do a callout

 

I suppose altogether it sounds more conspiracy theorish, like how he wears lifted shoes to stop potential opponents getting a read on him etc.

But yeah especially with the time Usyk takes between fights, I think he has a very specific and intense preparation for fights that depends a lot on who he is fighting. Which is why he doesn't take the smaller fights in between that other champs take. But it also means he can beat anybody in their own backyard.

 

I love Parker's callouts, but none of them have worked so far in landing a fight, though I would say they have worked in improving his public image and making him more popular.

If Usyk drops the WBO at what point does he become a duck to most people/fans?

 

When someone shows you who they are. . .BELIEVE THEM. Fury going way far back into his career was always avoidant of tough fights. Ducked Price. Swerved Ustinov. Cheated with PEDs for his match with Wlad and then, surprise surprise, got out of the rematch. He's on record talking about how AJ gave him the business when they sparred back when AJ was an amateur.

But ok, let's be ultra generous to Fury and say he did want to fight AJ. The real thing that kills this narrative that Fury and Co. were being truthful is Bob Arum. Bob is a snake. He's been one his entire life. Just listen to what ol' Tex Cobb had to say about him. Bob has also been a lawyer for longer than most of us have been alive. So Bob, a crafty, sneaky, backstabbing, piece of garbage who knows the law and contracts backwards and forwards doesn't understand that he and Fury aren't going to be able to get out of the 3rd Wilder fight? Really? Bob easily could have inserted some language into the contract to allow Fury to dump that fight. But he didn't. Hmmmm.

Again, you're pointing the finger at Usyk while not taking into account everything else involved in the situation. Usyk has to make Frank Warren happy. If he doesn't, Frank will do everything in his power to keep Usyk away from Fury. Ol' Bricktop is the Don King of British boxing. He holds all the reins of power. It's how he can continually maneuver Dubois into position and title fights. The man is so powerful he's connected to the broadcasting companies and it's why we get the horribly biased British commentary during fights. You'd think Tyson Fury won every round against Usyk from listening to TNT. TalksportBoxing should be renamed QueensberrySportBoxing. I mean, Frank straight up invented a narrative over a foul Dubois committed and had hordes of people convinced Dubois actually got robbed and that Usyk was a liar and a cheat. It was absolutely wild to watch it go down. Straight up Ministry of Truth stuff.

So if Usyk thumbs his nose at Frank to go fight Hrgovic, how does that help him in his quest to become Undisputed? This boxing game is complex. There aren't the rules and protections like there are in legitimate sports. Nitpicking Usyk for avoiding a middling fighter for nothing to fight another guy who is better (Dubois eventually proved that, of course) so you can continue keeping the powers that be happy? C'mon.

And the conspiracy theory that Usyk won't fight guys unless he has 10 years to study them is silly. This guy has the highest boxing IQ of anyone since Floyd. He's got the best team around him that work everything down to the decimal to prepare him for these fights. Joe Parker ain't some advanced Rubix Cube. Dude is white bread as all get out. Usyk will know exactly what he needs to do before stepping in the ring and he'll have him completely figured out within a round or two.

Also, you all just might being a bit myopic on this whole thing. Who's to say that Usyk doesn't drop the WBO, Parker gets elevated, Parker fights Itauma near the end of the year, and then Usyk fights the winner (which is what Turki wants, right? Usyk v. Itauma) sometime Spring of next year. Maybe we should save our complaining for after everything has shaken out, not before.

 

It should be considered a duck. Parker and Kabayel are the two top contenders, Dubois was the third one. But if he fights anyone else then it´s a duck.
But I am willing to bet that somehow the majority would excuse a third fight with Fury.

I honestly don´t see what the Saudi´s gameplan here is, besides intentionally fracturing the titles again, which is stupid.