''We don't want to admit it, but athletes gets better'' ...& Mike Tyson Mysteries

Perceived skill set improvements in sports like soccer and tennis are due to these sports becoming more professional and dedicating more time to hone skills as well as improved technology.

Tennis players rackets these days are nothing like the wooden rackets of old. You simply can't perform the amazing shots now with old wooden rackets, no matter the physicality of the player. Same with football, the old leather balls were porous and so got heavier with rain water and mud, new balls do not absorb water and are more aerodynamic so fly through the air with greater ease. Also players now wear lighter more advanced boots which can improve a players touch, power, control etc.

Boxing has evolved like most sports depending upon changes in rules, financial again and technology. But boxing unlike many sports had a level of professionalism in the past that wasn't there in other sports and so the improvements have not been anywhere as significant as other in other sports.

 

Do you really think that Dempsey would get destroyed by today's CW's though?

I don't.

You don't have to just compare certain fighters in a fantasy h2h match up.

You can compare era's of whole weight classes etc.

Your example of Jessie Owens, is why you can't compare other sports to boxing.

If you went back 70 years to Robbo's prime and brought him back to 2014 in a time machine, I'd bet that he'd clear out the current WW division.

If George Best was around today in his 20's, no manager or chairman would let him get away with what he did in the 60's and 70's. The game is more professional and there's too much money at stake.

So he'd have had to have looked after himself a lot more, or he wouldn't have been able to play. But he certainly could play in today's game. His pace, balance and dribbling ability would cause as much trouble today, as what it did years ago. As Dino has said, he'd be regarded as one of the best players on the planet, and he'd be worth millions. Same goes for Maradona and Cruyff etc.

 

Geroge Best would be calling for his pack of cigarettes after 40 mins of a modern premier league ganme.

As for your "strongest and fastest" players of all time, you're showing blind ignorance. He was quite slightly built and got by a lot on technical ability.

I made a comparuison on boxing.

Jack Dempsey gets massacred by a modern top 10 Cruiserweight.

I dont like to compare sports people of any discipline over long periods of time.

I can say that Ferenc Puskas was an ATG soccer player because of what he achieved in HIS time, but Im not going to say that a guy carrying 30lbs of fat would have made it in the modern Champions league!

Le Tissier was amazingly talented...and he got by on that. If he had been fit, he could have been a great.
As it is was he got a handful of caps for England. And yes the speed of the game has even increased in the 20 years since Le Tissiers prime.

Same way I can respect what John L Sullivan did in HIS era, or what Rocky Marciano did in HIS era and call him an ATG.

I wouldnt in a million years want to see Marciano against a Klitschko, or even a Haye for that matter.

 

What record did Arnold set that hasn't been broken? Arnold in his heyday was 235 pounds at 5% bf, the 2004 Mr Olympia winner was 297 pounds at the same bf%.

 

Also Arnold Swartzenegger while inspirational and obviously in better shape than anyone here would ever dream of being, wouldnt get on stage at a modern olympia looking like he did back then.

His record of Olympia wins has been broken too.

 

Youngest Mr Olympia.

 

Great post!

Sports science, nutrition, training facilities and equipment have had a big impact on certain sports, particularly athletics.

But like I've mentioned previously, a left hook, is still a left hook.

All those things that are listed above, aren't going to improve a fighters balance, footwork and timing etc.

Boxing is an art with many techniques to master.

Where are the double hooks today?

The body shots, the uppercuts, the ability to in fight instead of clinching?

Those skills aren't as common today as they once were.

I made a thread a while ago, asking whether we should go back to 15 round fights.

Other members have also asked the same question.

A lot of responses were posters saying that they wouldn't like to see it, because the fighters would gas and it would be a hug fest.

Yet these fighters today are supposed to be superior athletes with S&C coaches etc.

Yet some fighters struggle to fight over 12 rounds.

They used to fight 15 rounds in the past, with a high level of skill, so why can't they do it now?

In Ray Robinson's era, they used to fight every month or so.

I know there's no need to do that today, but fighters from the past seemed more conditioned to me, as a whole.

 

Nevermind that it was utterly ******ed of Dino (as usual) to bring up Arnold's Olympia record considering the shame he and Weider brought on the sport by handing him the 1980 title during his comeback.

 

When did Best ever call for a pack of ***s after 40 mins? Why would he do it today.

Nothing got to do with his build you clown. It was his tenacity and bravery on the tackle that made him strong. He'd bulldoze through the majority of todays players.
If you watched the game you'd know Messi hasn't the greatest endurance and plays at a the same pace Best did.

I already told you boxing was at its peak from the 40s-90 but you ignored that and went back to pull examples from the 1910, and 1920's because you are a simpleton and obviously trolling so are not worth any more of my time.

 

patsch

 

This is where we differ.

IMHO, Jack doesn't get massacred by all of today's CW's.

George Best was very strong, and fast.

I don't believe he smoked, but I get the point you were trying to make.

But like I've mentioned, he couldn't behave in the same manner today.

But if he turned up fully fit and motivated today at Manchester United's training ground, I suspect that he'd be the best player there, and he'd be starting the next match.

With how the game's run today, he'd probably be even better than he was.

Same with Maradona. Maradona played most of the 80's on coke.

With regards to not wanting to see Marciano fight Haye, I agree, but only if you're a fan of Haye.

Because Haye wouldn't have seen anything like 'The Rock' before.

My money would be on 'The Rock' any day of the week.

 

Because the game today is unrecognizable in tempo from the game played in the 70s!
Watch a division 1 game in the 70s and a modern Premier league game and tell me they're played at the same pace.
The fittest players back then wouldnt be able to survive in the modern game.

No Messi does not play at the same pace as Best does! You may as well compare modern formula one cars to one on the 70s!! Jeez!

Good, please stop responding.

If you cant see the blindingly obvious fact that soccer is played at a massively faster pace than it was in the 70s, where half the game was spent lumping the ball up to a big centre forward, then I dont want to converse with you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4CXY6TVBMc

 

Football is not a marathon sport , its a game of skill and strategy. Players are assigned positions for a reason.
LeTisser never was called a lot for England but everybody knows he should of been.
Best would be the top players today even with his old lifestyle.

Senna is arguably the greatest F1 driver of all time even though the cars today are light years more advanced.

There isn't a Cruiser on the planet who could match Marciano's work rate ,never mind beat him.

The HW's of the past used fight like the light weights of today.

They moved fast, could actually duck slip and parry. Throw multi combos to head and body. Fought on the inside. Fought at a high pace.

The art and science are nowhere to be seen in todays HW division.

Wlad vs Haye - the biggest HW fight of the last 10 years was one guy throwing a simple 1-2 head shot while the other guy tried to get off one simple over hand swing . That went on for the full 12 rounds. Pathetic.

If boxers are all better today. Prove it? Show me their names at the top of all the GOAT lists. Go on now.

 

Like I said, my ATG isnt based on h2h.

Its based on what fighters did in THEIR era. Same way I think Best was a great players for what he did in HIS era.

Doesnt mean I think he could survive in the modern one.

I disagree with everything you wrote.

I grown weary of this.
Watch a full 90 mins of a regular Div.1 game from the 70s and watch a full 90 mins of premier league from today.

If you still think they were -played at a similiar pace, then I cant help you.

If you think Marciano could compete with modern HW's(or cruisers) then more power to you...

I suppose John L Sullivan would KO Lewis too?

 

It's true that athletes of today are better because of the knowledge that they learned from previous greats and the advances in science, medicine and training methods BUT imo the greats will be greats no matter what.

Example in boxing:

I believe the late 1940's Robinson will have trouble beating the current top 5 welterweights BUT put him in this decade utilizing current advances in training, medicine, techniques, diet and boxing knowledge he would totally dominate.

Just my two cents.