We lost on an unification fight, but got two better fights instead....what's not to like?

The meat of all this is where you place Wilder... Which is difficult because he's spent most of his career fighting cans and his best win was against Ortiz who himself hasn't got a remotely impressive resume (and pushed him hard despite being old).


This is all why the AJ/Fury fight is interesting... There's ways you can argue it both ways, even if the evidence looks fairly well stacked up - but they're both interesting and very different fighters, the only way to resolve it is to put them in together.

But no, Fury has to fight the ****ing can opener again.

 

Resume wise I agree, although talking resumes overall not just limited to heavyweight I think Usyk has the better resume.

Regarding Wilder being proven at the level of Fury and AJ, I think bar Wlad the opponents are fairly comparable and there perhaps is not the massive difference you may think at first glance.

 

What?!

Wilder? Decent resume??

Wilders best win is Ortiz (I presume we agree on that?), and by some way (we probably agree there too?).
Ortiz resume is pretty poor.
So Wilders best win is a fighter with an uninspiring resume... And he was old at the time, which diminishes that win (by your own logic, which I agree with).

Wilder has a long resume, but it's a largely pretty hollow one - most of his opponents are significantly below Chisora level IMHO.
Whatever you want to say of Whyte, Parker, Povetkin etc they're at least the equals of Delboy and then some.

Fury is a difficult one to judge, but that Wlad win is levels beyond anything Wilder has ever done.

On the contrary, the more you look at Wilders resume, the less it holds up to scrutiny IMHO

 

I dont consider Parker a top fighter but i dont consider him a bum, parker is a gatekeeper just like Chisora. Whyte went life and death with Parker but still beat him, @ which idiot in this forum had Parker winning. Also the debate between who won between Chisora and Whyte is split. However almost everyone agrees Parker lost to Chsiora in addition to that Whyte beat a better version of Chisora. As I've stated Whyte also beat Oscar Rivas so if you want to take that away then it's fine to take Luis Ortiz off Wilders resume and with Ortiz gone Wilder has beaten nobody.

 

Not my logic at all, different fighters age differently. The only knock against Ortiz is that several fighters have shown literally no interest in facing him, he’s called out Whyte numerous times, called out AJ and iirc he was the 3 ranked heavyweight in the independent rankings when Wilder beat him.

Ortiz never got the fights against the top opponents and I’m not or was a fan of him, though I believe he is a solid or was a solid operator, along the lines of a Whyte or a Parker.

 

I agree, Usyk's CW resume is superb - ATG territory.

But the step up to HW is huge, to the extent that I just don't think that's really relevant beyond proving he's got skills (which isn't in any doubt).

Can he translate those skills into wins at HW? There's no resume at heavy to tell us, yet!

 

So you agree Whyte went life and death with two gate keepers in Parker and Chisora.....I’ll rest my case there.

 

But he still beat Oscar Rivas though, that win is comparable to Wilders win over Ortiz, besides Ortiz Wilder has beaten nobody

 

I gotta be honest, I don't completely trust those.

I don't see any real justification for it so I'm very wary of it... It doesn't make much sense unless you see him as being hyped in order to bulk up Wilders resume once he'd beaten him - and having a champion with such poor recognition and poor PPV numbers as Wilder was bound to get someone keen to boost his rep, no?

(Or maybe I'm just being cynical).

The point here really is that AJ has beaten half a dozen at at least Ortiz' level, plus Wlad who even at that age trumps him by far.

And Fury may not have the depth of numbers, but he's got Wlad and he made Wilder look clueless whilst incredibly unfit and then brushed him aside once he was.

I honestly don't see any case for Wilder being remotely close.

 

So you have now moved on to Oscar Rivas, how is beating Rivas comparable to Ortiz?

Let’s see your thinking, not that I agree or disagree, but let’s see how you got to this....

 

Both have the same career best win and have beaten nobodies apart from that.

 

Because Rivas also beat Bryant Jennings, the same Bryant Jennings who is the only good win on Ortiz's resume. 2 gate keeper tier wins and Oscar Rivas sounds like a better resume that Only Luiz Ortiz. Also whyte rematched Chisora and knocked him out cold.

Fury has Klitschko, Wilder, Chisora

Joshua has Klitschko, Whyte, Povetkin, Pulev (2 of which beat Chisora)

Fury's win over Klitschko is easily better than Joshuas win over Klitschko but overall Joshua's resume is better

 

But you just admitted Whyte struggled with “gatekeepers”, as I pointed out some people had him losing, that means he could arguably have lost against gatekeepers. In the Chisora rematch he was losing before the knockout.

Also Rivas dropped Whyte, another fight he went life and death in and then to top it off failed ANOTHER drugs test....

What exactly is your point in all of this?

 

Qhyte was clear of any wrong doings for the mess up for the drug test.

I had Whyte comfortably winning against Chisora in their first fight and ahead in their second fight to before he KOed him. Whyte deservedly was the winner against Rivas, Parker and Helenius. That's the deepest resume in the division after AJ.

 

And Wilder got saved by the bell against Ortiz in the first fight and got his head boxed off before landing his right hand in the second. Your point ? All it proved is Whyte has a better resume than Wilder. You can't argue against it. Whyte doesn't have an elite resume but it is better than Wilders, and Povetkin clapped Whyte which makes Joshuas win over povetkin also better than Fury's win over Wilder.

Joshua's resume is better than Fury's. Fury is more skilled but resume wise Joshua's is better