Weak Resume ?

trampie · Nov 14, 2008

Some people on here think that Calzaghe has a weak resume and therefore would lose if he fought a higher class of boxer ?
Calzaghe would simply up his game and still win, he has been pushed in the past, but not to the limit, he can still go up a notch or two.

Like i have said on here before {prior to the Jones fight}, there is no guarantee that a prime Jones beats Calzaghe, because Joe has the head and heart of a champion, for all the silky skills and supreme speed Jones had, it would not mean he would beat another man whos skills may be one notch below Roys but who possesses a brilliant boxing brain, great heart and has huge belief that he will win ?

DINAMITA · Nov 14, 2008

trampie said:

Some people on here think that Calzaghe has a weak resume and therefore would lose if he fought a higher class of boxer ?
Calzaghe would simply up his game and still win, he has been pushed in the past, but not to the limit, he can still go up a notch or two.

Like i have said on here before {prior to the Jones fight}, there is no guarantee that a prime Jones beats Calzaghe, because Joe has the head and heart of a champion, for all the silky skills and supreme speed Jones had, it would not mean he would beat another man whos skills may be one notch below Roys but who possesses a brilliant boxing brain, great heart and has huge belief that he will win ?
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"Calzaghe would simply up his game and still win"

I agree, but history will not see this opinion written on his resume, it will only see a weak resume punctuated by some quality wins near the end.

Prime Jones would 100% beat prime Calzaghe, there is no doubt.

dudemcdudeson · Nov 14, 2008

Calzaghe doesn't have the best resume in his first 38 fights. He did step up the competition around then. If he fought 46 world class fighters his entire career, he would surely have lost and possibly have brain damage or other serious injuries. Every fighter fights bums to pad up their record. There isn't one fighter who hasn't.

mrplow182 · Nov 14, 2008

PACFAN84 said:

"Calzaghe would simply up his game and still win"

I agree, but history will not see this opinion written on his resume, it will only see a weak resume punctuated by some quality wins near the end.

Prime Jones would 100% beat prime Calzaghe, there is no doubt.
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there's always doubt........of course it's more likely than not that Jones beats anyone when RJJ was at his best

no such thing as a certainty in boxing

tliang1000 · Nov 14, 2008

trampie said:

Some people on here think that Calzaghe has a weak resume and therefore would lose if he fought a higher class of boxer ?
Calzaghe would simply up his game and still win, he has been pushed in the past, but not to the limit, he can still go up a notch or two.

Like i have said on here before {prior to the Jones fight}, there is no guarantee that a prime Jones beats Calzaghe, because Joe has the head and heart of a champion, for all the silky skills and supreme speed Jones had, it would not mean he would beat another man whos skills may be one notch below Roys but who possesses a brilliant boxing brain, great heart and has huge belief that he will win ?
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His resume is weak. He got five names. Eubank, Lacy, Kessler, Bhop, and Jones and three of them are over the hill.

Predicto · Nov 14, 2008

It's pretty tough to say any championship level fighter at 46 and 0 has a 'weak resume".

But as tliang1000 points out... only 5 names there... with 3 of them past their prime, and Lacy being a seriously overrated hypejob... that leaves only Kessler... who is obviously good but has yet to prove any real greatness...

Not exactly an ATG resume when you look at it that way!

trampie · Nov 14, 2008

PACFAN84, i have to direct this responce to you, i am a sports fan that occasionally would visit this site and mainly read the articles and comments on the home page only occasionally venturing to the forum and lurking, but your threads made me post, because i felt Calzaghe was getting no respect at all, but i noticed a softening of your position after Calzaghe v Hopkins which has continued after Calzaghe v Jones, you do now give some respect to Calzaghe.
I agree with a lot of what you say although i could be called a Joe fanboy and you a Joe hater ?
I don't think that Calzaghe is one of the greatest ever, but i do think he is a top 75 ATG, i would have expected Roy Jones to beat Calzaghe in their primes { i don't know if you like a bet, but i would never ever bet against Calzaghe not even if he was fighting a prime Roy Jones, because Calzaghe is so hard to beat}
I do think that his resume could have been stronger !!!, but not entirely his fault, missed Benn, Collins era then failed to fight prime Jones and Hopkins {a sizable portion of the blame on Jones/Hopkins } hence why i put up a thread 'Calzaghe an Unlucky Boxer',it also looks like he will miss out on the p4p no1 now as well as having missed out on having a shot at Olympic gold, i suppose this is my motivate for pro Calzaghe threads,
for me to say Calzaghe could have achieved more from his career sounds unbelievable but i think he could have ?

DINAMITA · Nov 14, 2008

Montero said:

Well we will never know for sure - that is the great debate. If we could take a prime Calzaghe and put him in a time machine to face prime versions of Hopkins, Jones and Toney at 168 (his best weight) on neutral ground it would answer these questions, but we cannot...

Toney only had 7 fights at SMW officially and his best win there was over Iran Barkely. He had several quality wins at MW but was never known as a big puncher. He never really faced anybody with the speed and/or awkward style of Calzaghe - the only guy comparable would be Jones, who dominated him.

Jones had the wins over a still green Hopkins and a weight-drained Toney, but the rest of his tour at 160-168 pounds was against nobody special. It was at 175 where Roy fought his best competition, at least when you average it out, in my opinion. Still though you'd have to rank him #1 out of "the big three" of himself, Toney and Hopkins.

Speaking of Hopkins, after the loss to Jones in '93 he coasted for YEARS against fairly weak opposition. He did have the win over Glehn Johnson, who was a late bloomer and ended up being pretty damn good, but was never on anybody's p4p list. It wasn't until '01 that he beat Trinidad, then ODLH in '04 - two guys who's best weights were at 147. He never fought at SMW, but had quality wins at 175 against a faded Tarver, a blown up JMW in Wright, and a very green MW in Pavlik.

It's hard to say and we'll never know for sure, but in my opinion, at 168, prime for prime, on nuetral ground, I'd favor Calzaghe over Toney, have is 50/50 with Hopkins, and favor Jones over Cazlaghe. I'd say the Calzaghe from the Lacy fight was his prime. The Hopkins that beat Trinidad was his prime. The Jones of around 2000 was prime. And the Toney of the mid to late 90's was prime.
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The Toney of the mid-late 90s was prime?! atsch Toney's prime was 1991-1994, after the Jones defeat in Nov '94 his career went into a downwards spiral that saw him lose to Griffin and Thadzi, he never revived his career trajectory til around 2002 up at cruiserweight.

91-94 Toney, 93-03 Jones, 97-04 Hopkins all beat any version of Calzaghe IMO.

DINAMITA · Nov 14, 2008

trampie said:

PACFAN84, i have to direct this responce to you, i am a sports fan that occasionally would visit this site and mainly read the articles and comments on the home page only occasionally venturing to the forum and lurking, but your threads made me post, because i felt Calzaghe was getting no respect at all, but i noticed a softening of your position after Calzaghe v Hopkins which has continued after Calzaghe v Jones, you do now give some respect to Calzaghe.
I agree with a lot of what you say although i could be called a Joe fanboy and you a Joe hater ?
I don't think that Calzaghe is one of the greatest ever, but i do think he is a top 75 ATG, i would have expected Roy Jones to beat Calzaghe in their primes { i don't know if you like a bet, but i would never ever bet against Calzaghe not even if he was fighting a prime Roy Jones, because Calzaghe is so hard to beat}
I do think that his resume could have been stronger !!!, but not entirely his fault, missed Benn, Collins era then failed to fight prime Jones and Hopkins {a sizable portion of the blame on Jones/Hopkins } hence why i put up a thread 'Calzaghe an Unlucky Boxer',it also looks like he will miss out on the p4p no1 now as well as having missed out on having a shot at Olympic gold, i suppose this is my motivate for pro Calzaghe threads,
for me to say Calzaghe could have achieved more from his career sounds unbelievable but i think he could have ?
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A very good post IMO trampie. I don't think Calzaghe is a top 75 ATG, I'd say he maybe makes it into top 100, as that resume just won't quit. It's very easy to blame anything but the man himself for his shocking level of compeition for the 9 years from 1997-2006, but the fact is if the fighter had got sick of beating stiffs as early as he should have done and stubbornly demanded big fights, we wouldn't even be talking about this, we would be acclaiming an ATG. I think peak Jones and peak Hopkins would always be too skilled for Calzaghe, but I do think he had the talent to construct a better resume than he has. Very good fighter IMO, could have been great. Still could be if he still has the hunger for a couple more big fights. :good

podcast · Nov 14, 2008

If only his wife had bled-him dry a few years earlier. Or is that to cynical?

trampie · Nov 14, 2008

PACFAN84 i may have to remind you of a thread of mine that you replied to about whether Calzaghe could get to 50 and 0 by beating
Hopkins in a rematch ,Dawson, Froch and either Diaconu or Erdei and you replied he would beat them and get to 50 and 0 :thumbsup

DINAMITA · Nov 14, 2008

trampie said:

PACFAN84 i may have to remind you of a thread of mine that you replied to about whether Calzaghe could get to 50 and 0 by beating
Hopkins in a rematch ,Dawson, Froch and either Diaconu or Erdei and you replied he would beat them and get to 50 and 0 :thumbsup
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Sorry, but that did not happen mate.

trampie · Nov 14, 2008

Sorry i must have misunderstood your reply

DINAMITA · Nov 14, 2008

trampie said:

Sorry i must have misunderstood your reply
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Check back, you'll see that that was not what I said.

trampie · Nov 14, 2008

re:who should Calzaghe fight to get to 50 and 0
I have checked back, you end your reply by saying ''he'll get there'',
since i mentioned the above named boxers in my opening thread i thought you was saying he would beat them, but i realise now that the ''he'll get there'' just refered to the 50 and 0 {if he continues to fight the Roy Jones's of this world}

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