weight lifting...why such different views on it in boxing???????

this topic has always interested me?

i have boxed for many years and also grappled
this resulted in a few very bad injuries.....i did not lift weights then

about a year and a half ago i started to lift weights a lot
and my body's recovery and all over well being is WAY better....


interesting why it is a big question/former taboo in boxing....


most boxers in europe(poland to portugal) that i met or watched lift weights, to varied degrees and time spent.

in russia and fromer ussr...some boxers do and some dont...
but even in old time times there doing some types of lifting usually not heavy.


latina ameria, some boxers do and others dont, some coaches say its good others say its not.....some coaches will say you should only lift if your a bigger fighter like say over 147 or whatever....
that the little guys need more speed then more...
again an odd argument

in the usa, most lift but not all.

this is from knowlege

nacho beristain for a fact does not like his guys to lift weights but doesnt really go crazy if they do....a kind of its up to you attuide

uri wegner for example, thinks weight lifting is good for you and helps alot.

interesting enough
a lot of european-german boxers like abraham and strum etc
do seem stiff or more stiffer then latin's or americans
but then again they hardly ever get ko'd

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJqWSqXbzwE&feature=relmfu[/ame]


also odd is that whenever people mention weightlifting
people will say "ohh to many guys guys focus on that instead
of techique, i dont know what one has to do with the other lol



one good example i will bring up for weight lifting is that it can help prevent brain damage from boxing....

example, you make your neck-shoulders area stronger, this helps
absorb impact,

maybe this is one of the reasons many older fighters got brain damage

check george chuvalo talk


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7GgwOFpz7s[/ame]

 

Should this be in the classic.

:think

 

i posted it in both modern and classic


the reason being

is that a lot of arguments against lifting come
from the "wisdom" of old timers


so i just wanted to see what people think

 

Think it's a stretch to say weight lifting helps prevent brain damage. But then again, the science of reducing the shake of the brain due to stronger neck, back, shoulders sounds logical. I just think guys like Chuvalo and LaMotta are freaks to be able to have absorbed punches and walk away fine. If it makes a difference, I'd imagine it's incredibly marginal. I'm talking about brain-damage.

Most people will tell you there are benefits but if you overdo it you'll kill your stamina. That's what over-muscularization does. Just look at Frank Bruno.

 

yes you have a good point about bruno

BUT

people will say it will kill stamia
i disagree, alot of those stiff looking europeans like strum or abraham
go 12 rounds all the times


also everyone will mention this about lifting

but why doesnt anyone question
bad for knees etc

and try running every day
and see how your legs feel
espically if your a heavyweight....

plus you will probably feel physically weaker

but questioning running is a taboo for some reason

 

Abraham's stamina sucks. It's pitiful, hence he fights like a turtle and has low output. You can disagree but it's sports science. More muscles make it more difficult to get oxygen around your body. Imagine seeing a long distance runner looking like the hulk or something.

 

yes but boxing is not long distance running,
its a combat sport that requires physical power....

also not to mention lifting reduces injuries



if you want to put abraham down,
why not mention how well he absorbs punches
and how hard he hits....

also lets not forget he is a long time world champion
so he must be doing something right....


speaking of a hulk

image a boxer that looks like a long distance runner
lets see how well he takes a punch lol


if you mention sports science
every modern sports science book
will say that a certain amount of weight lifting is
good for almost any sport

espically combat ones

 

Boxers have allways lifted weights, their body weight. pull ups and push ups are just as effective if not more effective at strengthening your neck back and shoulders.

chuvalo would do head stands against a wall and roll from one side of his head to the other to make his neck strong, not lift weights.

the heavy bag is a weight, gloves are weights, ones sparring partner is a weight.

people focus too much on weights and not enough on technique. I.e. jack of all trades master of none. if you spend an hour lifting weights that an hour you could be sparing, hitting any of the bags, shadow boxing, hitting the pads, ect.

people focus too much on weights and not enough on technique. I.e. if you spend an hour lifting weights your muscles are going to be sore and your not going to be at peak when your sparring, hittin the bag, hitting he pads, shadow boxing, ect.

at extremes heavy weight lifting focus's on fast twitch fibers, fast twitch fibers have absoluetly no value when it comes to fine motor skills like blocking, distance, timing, even punching. if all you do is focus on fast twitch muscles the fast twitch to slow twitch muscle mass ratio becomes so great that your fine motor skills really start to suffer. this causes issuse like when you go to block a punch and your fast twitch muscles explode out to block it but nothing is stopping the muscle when your hand gets to where it should be to block the punch so as a result the entire movement to block the punch is tense and much slower then it could be so that you ensure that your hand is where you want it to be when the punch comes often resulting in your hand being moments too slow when the punch comes. same deal with punching with out fine motor skills to control timing and accurecy you tend to tense up so to ensure the punch gets where you want it to when you want it to with the tenseness making the punch slower overall. its ok if your just swining away like a wild man and hoping to take the punches to your noggin but boxings a bit more then that.

lifting weights is fine, as an amature maybe 2-3 times a week as a pro maybe 0-1 times a week but doing sparring and calistenitics in place of lifting.

 

about boxers lifting weights
yes to some degree they did

but body weight training can only take you so far

there is a reason why a lot of old school fighters
had long chicken legs


about your point about spending an hour lifting weights
vs an hour of sparring-hitting bags

that hour of weight lifting will make sure
that the hours you spend boxing dont get you injuried


ALSO

what about the hour the boxer spends running???
why the hell do that
when you can spar or hit the bag

sparring and bag work is cardio
and you also work on techique

so why the hell run then????


if you pose this question about lifting
i will pose to you about running

 

boxing and weight lifting do not go together. Doing repetition weight training works well. I remember when Hearns fought James Shuler in 1986, he had fought Hagler in 1985 in a tough fight of course, but Tommy said he learned that he was going to work on his body punching after the Hagler fight and he did. He worked on the heavy bag over and over and got his back muscles huge and became an even better bodypuncher than ever before. Had he lifted heavy weights it would have just slowed him down.

 

10 mins doing pull ups and push ups will do the same.

for breathing,
leg endurance,
because, unlike lifting, running dosnt tax your arms,
because running at slow pace over long distance dosnt exhaust you and distract from your preformance.

because you can run for an hour in the morning and still work just as hard at the gym in the afternoon.

John L sullivan would walk for 6 or 7 miles and walk back running full bore the last 2-3 miles. boxers have allways mixed intervals of running just as they have done their fair share of long distance running to improve the calmness and steadyness of their breathing along with leg endurance.

 

WRONG WRONG WRONG

if you really think that doing 10 mins of pull ups and push ups
equals a real weight session

wow this is not 1921

to be honest i use to think like yourself
before some brutal injuries that basically took years away from
my training....


about running you made some good points
but i will give you some bad points of it


1. bad for joints, espically your knees(the heavier you are the worse)

2. here is an example go run a long distance
then go spar,
you will feel like your walking on 2 sticks

or go lift weights after running you will see how much weaker you are,

the reason i bring up this argument is because many people mention stiffness right after lifting....


leg endurance....leg streaght????? different question?
strong legs help you that bounce and more importantly
help with punching power

SKINNY CHICKEN LEGS DONT


yes running does not tax your arms or shoulders etc
but it doesnt do anything to make them more powerful


remember boxing is a combat sport,
and in any combat sport
being stronger is never a bad thing



now i do run myself
and it is good for you
but it has it negatives just like lifting

 

Wrong wrong wrong

the goal is not a real weight session, the goal is to prevent injury.

were you warming up properly, were you stretching properly, were you training properly?

were you even going to a boxing gym, are you even going to a boxing gym? or were you expecting some personal trainer turned mma coach to teach you how to train for boxing?

run in the morning train in the after noon, or train then run.

im 200 ish and 6'4", only ever had knee injuries from when i went to a gym got a persoanal trainer and they had me do squats.

go lift weights then train at 100% and see how quickly you injur yourself.

yes they do. check out the legs of robinson, dempsey, fitzsimmons, louis. Chicken legs and some of the P4P greatest punchers of all time.

being too strong is, thus being stronger is. weight lifters make **** boxers.

really your grossly misinformed. you go do your mma and make something of your self or you can enjoy being an amature boxer but you will never make anything of yourself as a professional boxer.

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Chicken Legs...

http://www.antekprizering.com/robinsonolson6284245.html

Chicken Legs...

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Chicken Legs...

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Like Tree Trunks.....Couldnt Punch for ****.

 

Yeah, then we post Frazier's, Marciano's, Tua's and Tyson's legs... what's the point?

I understand the long running equaling less sharp training, having done it in a real and actual boxing gym, but it's a thing of balance and getting lots and lots of rest. Running definitely helps if you have the luxury of down time between your sessions.

 

Fraizer 5'11" over 200 lbs, tua 5'10" over 200 lbs, mike tyson 5'10" over 200 lbs

marciano 5' 10.5" 185 and thighs 5 inches smaller then tysons, calfs 4 inches smaller then tysons....they really wernt all that big. 22 inch thighs 15 inch calfs.... bout the same size at louis's

calfs the same size as mannys.....

id imagine the same idea with fraizer though i cant find his tale of the tape, they were large but considering his height and the weight he needed to reach its one of the better places to put the weight.

im not saying that you need chicken legs to punch hard, im saying that even if you have chicken legs you can punch hard.