Were Clay/Ali vs Liston Fixed?

The first 1 wasn't because Liston tried to win even using something on his gloves to blind Clay, Clay gave him an ass kicking too, he was a beat man, maybe he did injure his shoulder too, if you throw a punch full force and miss as he was doing it can cause rotator injuries.

The second 1 maybe, but Liston was within his rights to not get up until ALi had gone to the neutral corner. As soon as he did the ref Walcott was told by a ringsider Liston had been down for over 10seconds, which was irrelevant as the count doesn't start until the fighter at least makes there way to the neutral corner. Walcott should have made him go right away and not stopped the fight. Terrible ref in Walcott

 

agreed. when the editor/owner of ring magazine is making the calls on a fight from ringside, you're not the world's best ref

i agree also the first one, imo, wasn't rigged but the second one is questionable at the least

 

I dont think that second fight was fixed. The "phantom punch" was a very good punch. It knocked Liston down and he was about 18 sec on the floor.

If the fight was fixed, Walcott would count Liston and stop the fight as he was still on the floor. He let the fight go, and then stopped it as he was told that Liston was too long on the floor. If there was something wrong in that fight, it was Walcott's lack of professionality.

 

ZERO evidence of any fix in any of the 2 fights.

 

:deal This. Anything else is speculation

 

Liston had not fought many world class rounds from 1961-1965. 1961 liston did not fight a rated guy. Then he went 2-2 in title fights (3 in one round) up until 1965.

In 1960 Liston ws a real force and beat good contenders but from then untill the clay fights sonny had it far too easy. nobody lasted more than a round with him including patterson who just didnt do anything but show up for both fights.

Clay was a shock for him, Sonny was not ready for a competative fight, it had been too long since he had had one. I think he pulled out because sonny had a rematch clause just like patterson did against him so he really wasnt bothered about quitting. maybe he hurt his shoulder, it does not really matter. He was tired and losing that fight, that is for sure and there was not anything left in the tank to defend himself with. Quitting saved Liston from a TKO. He had the rematch in the bag so he did not mind.

The second fight was a farce. Liston had been upset with the delay of the rematch and was bothered that he might be too rusty, im sure with warm up fights Liston would have went into the ring with more confidence but he went into that ring with doubts in his mind. Ali did start fast and looked even beter, the presure, the talk of death threats could also have got to him. Liston just felt he was overmatched and folded up. He was done with boxing and he did not want a beating. The knock down was authentic, the count was messed up, liston did continue but he knew he wasnt going to win, he knew he was not ready. Liston just wanted to go home that night. ......much like patterson had felt against him.

 

WHAT ?
Liston fought all the best opponents he can fought....

 

yes he did - in 1960. 1961 he fought unrated gimme's to preserve his ranking then had a suprisingly easy time against patterson twice. There was no one left to fight because of who he beat in 1960. sonny went soft.

 

I've read allegations that X-rays taken of Liston's shoulder after Miami Beach indeed showed a legitimate injury sustained, as a result of forcefully extending his left and missing, causing it to wrench and be thrown out.

Whether or not Sonny deliberately blinded his young challenger with a substance like Monsel's Solution (ferric subsulfate, a stypic or haemostatic agent prepared from ferrous sulfate, nitric acid and sulfuric acid) on his gloves remains a subject of debate, but Liston did cogently argue to the effect of, "Why wasn't I blinded? If it could blind him, then it could blind me." However, if this was a deliberate attempt to cheat on his part, that's hardly the action of somebody throwing a match. Further, while the upstart challenger was blinded in the ring, it did look like Sonny was making a legitimate effort to take advantage and pummel him, especially to the body.

Near the outset of round three, Clay buckled him with a right, and drove him from mid ring to a neutral corner. To me, there's little difference between that right, and the one which decked Liston in Lewiston. On slow motion replays of the knockdown in Maine, the back of Sonny's head can be seen to whiplash sharply upon impact. His left leg was off the canvas at that instant as he was repositioning himself against his rapidly circling target. I'm entirely satisfied that the knockdown in Lewiston was wholly legitimate. No, it wasn't enough in and of itself to keep him down for a full count, and he would have beaten the count if Ali had immediately gone to a neutral corner. Privately, Sonny indeed told his wife Gerry that while the knockdown was authentic, it wasn't a knockout blow. Later in 1965, Ali screwed up Patterson's back by repeatedly jarring Floyd's head upwards with the same kind of impacts, weakening Patterson considerably.

 

Listons legs were gone. If the fight werent stopped, Ali would KO him in about 30 sec.