Were Clay/Ali vs Liston Fixed?

Firs tListon was intimidated by Nation of Islam members around fight, second fight was obvious dive, he seemed to make it obvious on purpose.

 

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Clearly an arm-punch, but the knockdown seems legit...

It's what happened (with the incompetent ref) afterwards which was dodgy.

 

The fall looks strange, but it clearly looks like the punch hurt Liston upon impact.

Also, Clay managed to stun Sonny a couple of times with righthands in their first meeting.

 

That wasnt the arm punch. You can see that Ali is moving his right foot after the punch. Ali prepared the right hand and he wanted to throw the punch, but he realized Liston is throwin a jab, so he leaned back and countered him. Ali was in a good position to throw that right hand, as he prepared it before Sonny threw the jab. It wasnt the most powerful punch, it was fast, the timing was very good and the punch was accurate.

I mean the punch lost some power after Ali dealyed it in order to avoid Listons jab, but Ali was still in good enough position (feet) to throw the right hand and the timing and accuracy were enough to seriously hurt Sonny.

 

He was hurt. His legs were gone. Possibly he took an advantage and was on the floor a few seconds more as he realized that referee is counting with delay.

It was Walcott who was incompetent in that fight. Imo opinion he shouldnt stopped the fight after somebodys advice, while Liston beat the count. Its always referee who is counting and he shouldnt be advised during the fight.

 

Lots of fighters go into fights with injuries, the injury is ofcourse likely to get worse and more painful, or maybe he just wanted a way out after taking a pasting

 

choklab you make legit observation. Maybe Sonny didnt train AT ALL!!! I heard he went to gym believed he didnt need to he thought he was invinceable. But that 2nd fight was very very FISHIE!!!!!!atsch

 

there was a bit of shock when that punch landed. you can see it go through liston's body. angelo dundee said the punches you don't see knock u down plus liston was coming forward into the punch, over-reaching and off-balance when ali landed - perfect timing. the fishy thing to me was liston rollin on the floor but the punch was legit and so was the knock down - what happened after was strange.

 

The 'phantom punch' was genuine enough. All this fix nonsense is because some still can't accept that Ali was as good as he said he was.

 

Well a bloated 180lb lightheavyweight Marty Marshall dropped Liston & broke his jaw with one punch, so i have no reason to believe Ali didn't have the power to also drop Liston. However, Sonny was not badly hurt & wanted to get up, but a crazed Ali stood over him yelling, then when Ali was finally moved, Walcott said Liston has been down for the count. How was Liston supposed to get up with his tormentor standing over his fallen body shouting? It's a real shame about Ali's hernia injury which delayed the rematch. Sonny was in tremendous shape at a shredded 208lbs, then the fight is delayed for 3 months, & Sonny lost all motivation to train or win. :verysad