Were does Floyd Mayweather rate P4P all time?

See, I'm not sure.

As long as Floyd weighs in at 130 and it's a same day weigh in, even being naturally heavier, Saddler's mauling and insane power delivery are equalisers.

I feel like you'd have to outwork PBF and shock and rock him with power. With Saddler's height and way of working into range where he could work em over, I dunno how Floyd deals with it.

It will be the busiest he's had to be against an absolutely destructive fighter who has already shown he can engage and negate an all-time defensive fighter. Pep had excellent offence as well so yeah, I'm not venturing a winner but I wouldn't be surprised if Saddler injured Floyd in the fight and then drowned him down the stretch.

I would likely back Floyd in a rematch but in a first time, it's a pick em for me.

 

There's absolutely no way Kovalev's 2019 was better than his 2016.

 

Pretty much.

 

I honestly don't know because it's hard to compare eras. Some people will always rate fighters from the 50s and down higher because they just had way more fights. No modern fighter can compare to 200 fights. Then you have others who focus on efficiency. What did you do in the amount of fights you had? That is why someone like Sugar Ray Leonard is rated highly even though he barely had 40 fights. His top wins are up there with anyone to ever live.

Floyd gets a lot of heat for picking fights at the right time and not challenging himself as much as some would prefer. I think there's some valid criticism in that albeit it can be overstated. Did Floyd take on every possible challenge or take on every challenge at the exact time that everyone wanted? No. But if we are being fair, that's extremely rare for any fighter. You can play that game with most fighters. I think it's exaggerated with Floyd because he's not a likeable person.

Honestly, Floyd has achieved a lot. 5 division champion which only two other fighters can say they won titles in more weight classes (De La Hoya and Pacquiao). Defeated the most world champions which is more of a modern accomplishment than a historical one but still matters. I remember the criticism being that there are so many belts so of course he did that but Floyd did it in 50 fights. You have modern fighters who have more fights who didn't do it. Defeated 16 current/former champions in a row. 5 time lineal champion (130, 135, 140, 147(2x), 154). Entered the P4P list in 1998 at 21 years old and didn't leave until he retired in 2007 at 30. Then comes back almost 2 years later and is a P4P fighter again from 2009-2015. Was rated P4P number 1 from 2005-2007 and again from 2012-2015. He also has 9 hall of famers on his resume (Pacquiao, Gatti, Corrales, Hatton, De La Hoya, Marquez, Canelo, Cotto, and Mosley). I understand some weren't at their best but all of them were champions when he beat them and some were undefeated when he beat them. If I'm not mistaken, there are only 5 fighters in history who have defeated more (Greb, Robinson, McLarnin, Langford and Armstrong). They all had significantly more fights than he did. He's also a 15x world champion (If Ring title are included) which is a lot for a guy who didn't really care about belts. He did all of this for 20 years, moving up a lot of weight classes and remaining undefeated. I didn't even bring up the eye test which he passes IMO with flying colors. Especially at 130-140. He was a complete fighter. Even at 147-154, he still was excellent although not as dynamic. He just dominated in a different way. I think a case can be made ability wise he's one of the very best we've seen. I'm not sure where all of that ranks all time but I would imagine it ranks relatively high. Floyd didn't have a lot of fights in comparison to past greats but he accomplished a lot within the fights he had.

 

Are you at arguing that he was shot because it was only the second best year of his career?

 

No, I'm saying there's no way 2019 was the better year for Kovalev - even without the Canelo loss - than his 2016.

I wouldn't argue he was shot for Canelo, as he was still a top 3/4 LHW, but he clearly past his best, had a very short training camp due to fighting like 10 weeks earlier and had to put up with fat rehydration clause.

 

What's your top 10 p4p?

 

This is too stupid for even you.

Canelo was never in his prime. He’d barely fought anybody at that stage. Barely done anything.

Everyone knows his prime was between MW-SMW.

The best year of Kov’s career?

Ha!

He was awful against Yarde, and he was rushed into the fight with Canelo.

He was also seen universally as being a very faded/shot fighter, after his knockout losses.

 

I’ve not done one for years.

It’s very difficult to put them in order.

I have guys like:

Greb
Robinson
Langford
Armstrong
Charles
Moore

They’re like the staples for me.

Then you’ve got guys like the Leonard’s, Pep, Saddler etc.

I like the tiered system that many fans use.

On ability alone, Floyd would be up there.

But if you study the skills of guys like Charles and Moore, and then you look at who they fought and beat, there’s no way that Floyd can compete with them.

 

I consider SRR, Greb, Langford, Armstrong, Charles and Benny Leonard locked ahead of Mayweather. Probably Pep too, just.

I could see SRL/Mayweather either way. If you place more emphasis on the best 3-4 wins you'll go for SRL, if depth of win resume and longevity, you'll go Mayweather.

I can also see Moore/Mayweather either way. If you prefer quality of win resume and don't care about losses, you'll have Moore higher, if you value consistent dominance over the field more highly, you'll go for Floyd.

I consider Mayweather a lock over Saddler.

 

I respect your post.

But I could never put Floyd ahead of Archie.

Look who Archie fought.

And if Floyd had fought comparable opponents, and with a ton of mileage, then there’s no way he’d have retired with an undefeated record.

 

He was having the best year of his career in 2019. He beat Alvarez, an undefeated champion who had beaten him, and Yarde, an undefeated and dangerous guy.

Before losing to Ward in 2016, he'd beaten Pascal in a rematch and Chilemba. Not as good as 2019.

So yes he was having the best year of his career before getting flattened by Canelo unless you're making some weird obtuse argument that the Ward loss at the end of the year somehow counts, while he'd obviously have had his standout year in 2019 if he'd beaten Canelo.

 

I suspect most Classic posters will have Moore higher. He certainly has the better win resume, one of the deepest in boxing history.

I find Moore (along with Canzernori) the hardest ATG to rank. Amazing win resume, but also a lot of losses to non great fighters during his prime years - even making allowance for his incredible activity levels.

Agreed, of course Mayweather wouldn't have remained unbeaten had he fought as many prime ATGs, and of the quality, as Moore fought. No fighter in history would.

 

Another delusional post.

We can bring up the old threads if you like.

There’s a reason why Canelo fought Kovalev at that specific point.

A reason why he forced him into a very quick turn around.

A reason why he went straight back to SMW afterwards.

Didn’t he also use a rehydration clause?

It was a cherry pick.

 

I appreciate the names you mentioned, they can definitely be in a top 10 all time p4p list, like Robinson, Ali, and Duran. And we could also discuss Barney Ross, Canzoneri, and Tunney, whom I'd put in a top 15 rather than a top 10, but then again, these are just opinions on top notch champions. I remember that a Ring Magazine p4p all time list placed both Pacquaio (9th) and Mayweather (6th) in the top 10. I'd also put Mayweather ahead of Pacquiao, even though Pac Man has a few more important opponents defeated than Floyd, but Floyd's period at the top, over 15 years, is very important in my opinion. That's why I say I see him in a top 15 and I think he could even be in a top 10 (as Ring Magazine placed him). But again, these are just opinions, it's easy to have different ones when faced with great champions like those mentioned.