Were does Floyd Mayweather rate P4P all time?

I think we can all agree that 2019 Kovalev would’ve been an absolute handful for Virgil Hill.

 

Good post.


What hurts Floyd the most, is not having fought a true great whilst they were in their prime.

There’s no way he can be 6th.


His stats are also extremely overrated.

They simply wouldn’t have existed in a stronger era, where he’d have fought more often.


Also, many of the champions who he fought would never have been champions in a stronger era.

 

WTF?

 

I tend to think Floyd from the Corrales fight has all the same success which Pep did, and wins most exchanges at range and as they get closer to eachother; but like Pep, takes a lot of damage in doing so. Once Saddler gets up close, and/or Floyd starts to chill on the ropes, he'll really need to get out of there.

There's a ton of stuff which Saddler does which I think would really trouble Floyd and he hasn't really faced before. Especially if it's the kind of gloves and rules which Saddler fought in.

The first is his jab; Saddler liked to use the palm of the hand to jab, coz it let him shove people around with it, lacerate them with the laces and turn his jab into frames. De La Hoya had success with a long jab, and his wasn't nearly as good as Saddler's.I think the frames off Floyd's shoulder would really mess with his defence, especially up close.

His right hook to the body would get at that little opening behind his elbow when he turns his shoulder over, it's a good counter to the jab and hook as Saddler steps in, good at cutting the ring, and it's the shot which really damaged Pep at range.

One weakness of the shoulder roll which Maidana and Ortiz found, was using the forehead to frame off the shoulder, which stops him from rolling it. Saddler - and especially Armstrong - would find a lot of use with this imo. Saddler also has a really nice way of exploiting the over-under clinch with these weird uppercuts which look horrible but to wear people down; and not only that, he'll crank on the arms and damage the shoulders. He'll press his elbows into the body, letting them jab into his opponents as they move their torso. Obviously he fouls like hell in a conventional sense too.

Another thing up close, I wish we saw was holding his head. I know it never happened because it's not allowed, but Saddler did it to great effect against Pep and iirc Elorde, and Marciano did it against Moore. Hold their head in place and feel which direction they're trying to move it, then either punch where your own hand is, or punch in the direction they're trying to move their head. I think Saddler would really rough Floyd up close with this sort of thing.

 

We have different opinions about Mayweather, but that's fair enough. Thanks for the nice discussion, it's always good to hear other people's opinions.

 

Beating Alvarez is only impressive because he lost to Kovalev, which only happened because he was on the slide. Isaac Chilemba had a very close fight with Alvarez anyway, so let's not pretend like the difference between them is night and day here.

Pascal is obviously better than Yarde.

Losing an incredibly close and competitive decision to Ward - which tons of people thought he won, is his most memorable fight, and probably his best performance - is much more impressive than losing to Canelo.

 

When you put it like that, I'm convinced.

The thing is, as you said, PBF would happily foul in retaiilition and was no stranger to using his forearm in the face to frame his man into his right hands and hooks. He showed he could fight up close at risk of taking his lumps Vs Chavez and Burton but ... Saddler is Saddler. I just think he's a horrible style for a shorter fighter who isn't a KO artist and likely won't have answers for that nasty inside dirty fighting.

For me, same day weigh in, Sandy's gloves, New York and not Vegas, it's a horrible fight for PBF. I'm not sure if he takes the fight but assuming they have a series of fights, he doesn't stay undefeated for my money and Saddler's style and penchant to inflict legalised violence could well takes some years out of him.

That said, when PBF wins and I think he would win in a series of fights, he looks masterful but there's no way he does it without having to suffer IMO.

On his very best night, I'm not sure whom I would favour over Sandy at 126 - 130.

 

You really think any modern ref would allow Saddler to do all that?

 

No, it's unlikely, which is why I said "Especially if it's the kind of gloves and rules which Saddler fought in."

But I actually don't think it's as impossible as it seems. Whyte got a KD against Parker with a headbutt, Maidana got away with biting against Floyd, Espinoza won the title with elbows, Ruenroeng & Casimero had an MMA match, Warrington was always headbutting and lowblowing, Pacquiao was fouled pretty bad against Horn and Sanchez without any help from the ref, Holyfield... exists.

Fouls are definitely still a part of boxing, it's just less obvious now imo.

 

Likewise.

 

Yeah, I agree, Floyd probably wins the series if the damage doesn't accumulate too much. I think Floyd would foul back too, and I think there's a lot Floyd would do which would absolutely win rounds against Saddler. The body jab to left hook traps he set against Corrales would definitely work; the counter right hand to the body and head too. I think he'd probably realise that level changing against Saddler is a great idea as it'd let him escape the ropes and it's pretty safe to do against a taller fighter. Plus, lowering your whole torso and straight punching is a good way to deny the clinch; plus Floyd was always good at using his elbows to deny the clinch and sneaky at landing them.

One other thing Saddler does great is wrist control, especially with the thumbs on his gloves. He, and Pep, did it too eachother quite a bit, pulling the others arms across themselves so they can land a quick shot, or moving around the ring while in the clinch. Saddler also used it to pull elbows forward in the clinch, so he can get at the tender parts of the body.

I think one of guys who'd beat Saddler is Armstrong; I remember the first half of the fight against Charlie Riley (I think?) where Saddler gets pretty roughed up and spends ages on the ropes getting trapped there by a smaller crowder. I tend to think Armstrong would absolutely do something like that in an awesome, super dirty fight.

 

True Ward and Hopkins exist after all. But generally fighters either have to be more subtle about it or fight in their hometown where the referee usually is more lenient with this kind of stuff unless its super blatant. I don't think Saddler would get away with being as obvious today as he was when he fought at least imo

 

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