Were Does Sonny Liston Rank in ATG Heavyweight list?

Full paragraph.

"Apart from reigning for under 2 years and defending his title once against Patterson, tell me all about the truely great fighters Liston beat. I don't want to hear about him beating other top 10 contenders during the late 50's and into the 60's. Thats not going to do your arguement much good for a top 3 placement. So lets hear it"

I think the highlighted parts clearly show it at as 'tongue n cheek'. I finished the paragraph with "lets hear it" Didn't that tell you something? You decided to take my words to heart and mention this twice after the above was posted. Don't worry McGrain, you can mention the top 10 contenders Liston fought during the 50's and 60's. It was a quite obvious **** take.

 

The paragraph has two sides. If your going to tell the about the truely great fighters Liston beat, then your obviously going to have to include the top contenders he beat during the 50's and 60's. Just take that with a pinch of salt my man. I obviously can't see what you can in Liston's top contender wins during the 50's and 60's and was dismissive, but ended with "lets hear it". Dam, I wanted to hear it from you, but you sulked instead with "And if you don't want to hear about him beating top contenders there is really nothing to tell".

 

Throw out the Patterson wins? Where did I throw his wins over Patterson under the table? Show me. When I said, outwith the Patterson wins, I was giving him praise for those. Meaning fighters apart from Patterson. You think that Liston beating Folley, a decent scalp and a better version than Ali fought, no question, and the others you mentioned deserves a placement among the cream of the ATG heavyweights? Cleveland Williams was another fighter who was at his best when Liston evaporated him. Again, a better one than Ali beat. It's not that I'm totally ignoring Liston cleaning out the division, but I don't think he deserves such a high placement.

I personally would have him at the bottom half of a top 10. I do agree that opinions become a mixed bag with everyone after the top 2-3 placings usually.

atsch

 

This is a fine post. Tho i don't rank Liston quite as high as you do i enjoy your reasoning and explaining. I have Holmes 4 but he is one guy that can definitely be argued against, in your case with Liston. He has some great strengths but he also has cherry picking, a weak era and the like as well. Beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder when it comes to Liston and Holmes, two Heavies that can be heavily argued both for and against.

 

Yeah, you told me. But it took a while to do so. Nothing wrong with my hearing at all.

 

Yeah i couldn't rate Bowe anywhere near that high myself, but to each his own. Good to see variety of opinion

 

Tanned with a nice fame. :good

 

Lennox Lewis at number 3 is madness to me .. This guy beat a shot Tyson, a past prime Holyfield and a collection of very average fighters like Grant, Mavrovic, Briggs, Tua and Golota .. He also got knocked out by Rahman and stopped by McCall. Which other heavyweight 'Great' was beaten by 2 average opponents like McCall and Rahman ?? No way does Lewis belong at 3, he benefits from the modern day hype but his resume can be ripped apart more than any heavyweight in the past 50 years !!

 

Tell me the fighters that Dempsey beat that were better than Greb ?? Not Carpentier, Not Firpo, Not Willard, Not Sharkey .... Forget about weights, weights in 1915 - 25 werent as important as they are now .. Dempsey wouldnt fight Greb, Willls or Langford but he is always ranked ahead of Tunney in the Heavyweight lists .. Even though Tunney convincingley beat Dempsey twice .. Tunney had a better heavyweight record than Dempsey because he beat Dempsey twice .. Dempsey fought nobody, and getting back to the original thread, Liston fought nobody compared to what Tunney had to face in Dempsey .... Not forgetting that Dempsey got knocked out against Jim Flynn and terrible times against the awkward Willie Meehan .. Dempsey and Tyson are only rated above Tunney because they were popular with the masses, thats all .... Tunney was a sensational fighter, better than Dempsey but maybe not as good as Johnson .. Thats a fair unbiased assessment

 

Statistical breakdowns mean nothing to me when the guy your focusing on has been Ko'd by a bum like Rahman, stopped by a headcase like MCcall and struggled against Bruno and Mercer ..... The facts show that Lewis's record and legacy is based on beating a shot Tyson and a past prime Holyfield .. His legacy is like Calzaghe's, who beat a shot Jones Jr and a past prime Hopkins ...... Dont ever try and convince me that Lewis belongs in the same sentence as Louis and Ali, Statistical breakdowns can be decieving !!

 

Look, I'm on pills right now, so I'll fill in a proper rebuke later. I can't even tell if all these words are goin together right. Just wanted to say - you're probably wrong about all that whatever it is.

 

Indeed, Bowe was very tanned. Not sure i want to get into judging his frame quite like that tho