Were does Virgil Hill rank amongst the Light Heavy Weights

some would say that Taylor was a step up for Hopkins and he failed since he lost. And Maske was not any worse than Kessler. Hopkins beating Tarver and Tito and Wright is good, but they were all handpicked. I see your point, but Hill did beat some good fighters. About Hopkins, truthfully Hopkins is more versatile than Hill, so he knows who he can beat and what style he needs to beat them. But I cannot say his middleweight competition was great. Truth be told, most guys who have over 20 defenses also fought many bums themselves.

 

Taylor was not a step up. Taylor wasn´t better than most of Hopkins´ other competition in his title defence. He just had the youth and activity to beat a 40+ year old Hopkins who had trouble making weight. And it is not as if he beat him decisivly. In fact many people had him losing to the old man. Tito, Wright and Calzaghe are better than anyone on Hill´s win resume by quite a bit. And the cirsumstances make Tarver, Pavlik and Pascal better than any win of Hill too.

You are a bit right with Calzaghe though. Kessler and Maske are about in the same class but Kessler was a unified champ when Joe C. beat him, Kessler was right in the middle of his prime while it was Maske´s last fight - outside of his comeback after 10 years in which he beat Hill. But yeah, Calzaghe and Hill is closer than Hopkins and Hill - or Hopkins and Calzaghe for that matter.

 

great post! The way I think Taylor was a step up was more because of his speed and emergence as what people thought was a great fighter. although I do not think Tarver,Pavlik and Pascal are better than Hills wins even over Tiozzo or Bobby Czyz, who did win another title in 1991 over Daniels, something Pavlik has not done year or Tarver yet.

 

Tiozzo is comparable to Tarver and Czyz to Pavlik and Pascal but you have to factor in the circumstances of those fights. Hopkins moving up two weightclasses after losing two (disputed) decisions against Taylor, losing his mw crown and was thought of beeing done. Beating the man who beat the man who beat him, a man 17 years his junior, a dangerous KO puncher and current mw champion. And beating the current ring mag lhw champ and becoming the oldest champ in history. Not too mention that he was the underdog in two of those fights. These circumstances put those three wins above any of Hills. and by quite a bit.

 

Wasn't Hill 42 years old when he beat Brudov?

 

I think Tarver is comparable to Tiozzo if Tarver can make it at cruserweight like Tiozzo did, but I think Czyz was better than Pavlik and Pascal. Czyz did win titles in 2 divisions and beat Daniels and Lalonde at 190m and he had some title defenses at 175 for his IBF crown before being beaten by Prince Charles. I think Bernard is great, but his handpicking diminishes a little his recent fights. When he fought Calzaghe who was the top guy without the handpicking he lost. He lost to Taylor, but when he handpicks and dictates weights he wins. Sure Pascal was at the weight of 175, but how great was he? I give Hopkins credit for knowing who to fight and when.

 

Alot of mention has been said about Hill's big losses. But which are his biggest career defining Victories? Whivh would put him on the map with the ATG's.

 

the totality of his wins. Look at the career of Roberto Duran? Without the Leonard fight, which Ray fought his fight and later won easily against Roberto, what is Duran's best win to make him ATG? Virgil beat good champs Maske, Tiozzo and Czyz both two time champs, Tate, Del Valle, Lasisi, Leslie Stewart. A long list. He might be the most underrated fighter around.

 

Yeah, Hill migjt be the same boat as Orlando Canizales, long list of title defenses, but little ATG respect...

 

his style and personality made him less noticed. Too bad. He really is underrated.

 

Cw was so sh*t back then, everyone could pick up a belt. It was a ******* division nobody gave anything about. Much better today and has some recognition, especially in Europe. And sorry, did you even read what I wrote?

Yeah, right a 44 year old fighter is handpicking an unbeaten fighter who beat the man who beat him and is 18 years his junior. And no, he did not lose to Taylor. That was more politivs with HBO and Co wanting Hopkins beeing out of the way. And neither did he lose to Hopkins in many, and my eyes. And again, are you even reading what I write? When you take on the lhw champ at age 46 and win it doesn´t matter if he is an atg or average, it is a great win either way - and better than anyone Hill ever had.

 

I don't see it like that. If a guy is fighting and he handpicks someone who is not that good, the guys is still not that good. I don't think if Hopkins fights until he is 50 and keeps handpicking that it will mean much. What more can I say about that. And Pascal being undefeated because he didnt' fight many guys good enough to beat him. Undefeated doesn't mean as much. Tommy Hearns beat Virgil Hill who was undefeated and lost to Barkley who had several losses one year later in 1992. And Hopkins did lose to Taylor. You think because you decide he did not lose to him that he didn't lose. If a decision reads someone didn't win on the scorecards he didn't win. You trust the decision of the judges, at least I do. Some people said Zbik beat Chavez, which is interesting since Chavez is holding the belt. And Cruiserweight isn't exactly stellar right now. Was it ever great? When Evander fought there he was a strong champ, but his competition was not great.

 

Virgil's legacy is better than Orlandos.

 

It's not just about losing to them , he was the bigger and fresher man against an already beaten and beatable Hearns and the bigger man against Jones.
Hill losing to Hearns is much more embarassing than Benitez "losing" to Hearns.
Hill getting KOd by Jones is overwhelmingly more embarrassing than Vaca getting KOd by Jones. It's like if Ruiz was KOd by Adamek , much worse than Ruiz's stoppage loss to Haye , because Haye was still fresh , and actually somewhat bigger than Ruiz , and Ruiz was done at that point.

 

all fighters have embarassments. Facts is those are still Hearns and Jones. If you eliminate losing to legends of that stature, Hill had a great career.