Were guys like Terry Daniels and Manuel Ramos really that bad?

Ramos wasnt too bad. He was ok. Daniels wasnt very good at all. He could be outboxed, out brawled, and out punched by even significantly smaller fighters. He seems like a genuinely nice guy though. A real good ole boy. In the post fight press conference after Frazier he has a real "golly gee" demeanor and seems to just be glad to be along for the ride.

 

Ramos was a big deal for a short while. He had a big following. He could punch and was game. Matched like fighters today he could have looked like a world beater until he moved up a level.

Daniels was decent. There is a level where he would have looked good too. Limited a bit by size but he had sound fundamentals. Looked like a good boxer just a bit too physicaly frail for top class.

 

Certainly Terry may of benefited to a degree from a Cruiser division to campaign in, I am not sure how dedicated and disciplined between fights they were, Both seemed to be in the position of taking the best offer and hoping for the best, where other fighters might have had a more nurturing management, (?) but you get to the stage where you have to come off the leash and see what you have got, and if you are not good enough then so be it.. if you make for exciting fights you could still be in demand. I think Terry and Manuel found their true Level, Fringe contenders at best, I remember John Conteh, in his last fight trying to be a Heavyweight, but still small, Giving Terry a six rounds Drubbing, They were what they were, not bad, lets say adequate.

 

Daniels was a journeyman fighter....Pure and simple.

 

Yes.

 

No.
Ramos gained a semblance of credibilty by beating Terrell whom Ali had ruined. Daniels was a journeyman, gutsy but short of class, and talent.

 

I thought he quit against Frazier.

 

Ramos had some size and some power to make him a credible challenger. He was dangerous and actually caught Joe with a big uppercut in the 1st round before Frazier destroyed him.

Daniels may have been a decent fighter but he was small and was really just a tune up fight for Joe Frazier after he came off a layoff.

IMO Daniels was that bad at least as a heavyweight title challenger. Ramos was a credible challenger.

 

At the time Daniels fought Frazier, he was 28-4-1. He had gone the 10-round distance with Patterson, though at most he won 1 round. He was stopped in 4 by Jack O'Halloran just three fights before the Frazier bout. He was in no way remotely deserving of a title shot. They probably should have just called it a nontitle fight. Really, it was just a tune-up and payday for Frazier.

Although Manuel Ramos had a number of decision losses early in his career, he had never been stopped. At the time he fought Frazier, he was on a 15-fight win streak, including decisions over Eddie Machen and Ernie Terrell.

Ron Stander was 23-1-1. He held a KO5 over the vaunted puncher Earnie Shavers. He had a 10-round draw with and 10-round victory over Manuel Ramos. Stander also held a 10-round decision victory over Thad Spencer, as well as Jack O'Halloran. His only loss was a split decision to Rico Brooks.

 

Both Machen and Terrell were on losing streaks when Ramos fought them, "right time right place".

ps How's the book coming ? I cant wait to read the second volume.

 

I may be wrong, but I believe non-title fights are arranged by an agreement that the champion will weigh in above his weight class.

That's why the longtime heavyweight champions all have some really atrocious title defenses nestled among their big wins. No weight limit.

 

Size wasnt Daniels' only limitation. He lost to a lot of guys who were smaller than him.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKROgsPIw-4

Woah! Ramos really rocked Frazier badly there. Makes you wonder what would have happened to Frazier if it was a more dangerous finisher in there.

 

See Kingston Jamaica for the answer.Ramos wasn't powerful enough to push Frazier back so he conceded ground then rallied with fluuries.Foreman stood his ground and pushed Frazier out to optimum range then unloaded.

But you know this Suzie.

Frazier misses badly at times ,Choklab says he had an extra range when he was prime, I don't see it here.
That uppercut sure stiffened his legs.
I never thought too much of Ramos but he sure looks better than some of Wlad's challengers,it's all relative I suppose.