Were the four kings of the 1980s really scared of Aaron Pryor?

The division was created in 1922, not 1959, to START with.

All-timers like Jackie "Kid" Berg, Tony Canzoneri, Barney Ross, Tippy Larkin and Carlos Ortiz were champs in the division before 1959.

 

And Michael Spinks, Floyd Patterson, Evander Holyfield, Michael Moorer and Roy Jones ... hell nobody ... would've won a title at heavyweight, either, if they'd only challenged a prime Ali.

Arguello went after THE BEST "scalp" the whole division has arguably EVER produced and lost twice. Don't bash him for that. He could waste regular champs in that division and get scalps like Billy Costello. But he chose not to. He went after arguably the best fighter the division has produced. And he fought great.

Against anyone else, Arguello would've been a top champ in that division, too.

 

I'm thinking Aaron comes up short against Marlon and Donald, possibly Colin also. Would not want Aaron fighting Milton either.

 

Canzoneri came from lighter divisions, his legacy doesn't rest on 140. Neither does Ross's. Ross actually did achieve something above 140. Still don't think too many would give him a chance against Robinson.

 

That's only a guess, though.

With Ali, whom you compared Pryor to, we don't have to guess. His legacy rests on beating guys that actually achieved A LOT in his own division. His win over the dominant LHW champ Foster, which he managed without cheating, doesn't mean an iota for his legacy.

 

You say starling was sorry, then pump up brown and honeyghan, both of whom starling beat after curry had edged him twice.

You give no evidence that Leonard would be beaten by pryor. Sorry a general claim that Leonard had trouble with shorter guys doesn't suffice

Your claim that Leonard was afraid of pryor borders on delusional

Aaron pryor never fought above 140 until after coming back in 1987.

There is absolutely nothing to gauge how he could perform at 147 lbs in his prime

With such a dearth of evidence I will pick Leonard who was well proven against the best 147 pounders of his era to stop the smaller, weaker, less powerful, defensively inferior and weaker chinned pryor by the mid rounds

Lastly curry was way past prime when he lost to norris

Curry reigned at 147 for close to 4 yrs while unifying the title. He belongs in the IBOF.

Overall he did more than brown, honeyghan,starling, McCrory and blocker.

 

I really liked starling but prime for prime curry was better

Curry was more versatile.

I would not say starling was green when curry beat him in 84. Curry was seen as number 1 and starling as number 2. In fact, ko mag said he may even be 1a. Also, nobody thought starling won the fight. I have the post fight story in my ko mag collection.

Starling excelled against guys pressing the action thus beat honeyghan and brown. He had trouble with movers like blocker and breland in the first fight. Breland was way ahead when he got caught

I like many think curry was severely weight drained when honeyghan beat him. Until then, for almost 4years, he dominated the division.

Twice curry beat his closest legitimate rivals MCcrory and Starling

He was the real deal at 147.

 

Not really. Who were the other Junior Welterweight champs in that era? Saoul Mamby? Leroy Haley? Billy Costello?

Which one do you think beats Arguello? Arguello knocked out Costello in four rounds. So it isn't him.

What contenders were going to beat Arguello had he won the other belt? Termite Watkins?

Arguello could've taken a much easier route than Pryor and won a junior welterweight title and defended or a while. There was no one around to beat him, except for Pryor.

I'd never bash him, like you are, for going after the very best the division produced instead of going the Mamby, Haley, Costello route. Arguello could've feasted on those guys for years.

 

What you're doing now is the very definition of guessing. Doesn't mean you're necessarily wrong, but it is guessing nevertheless.

What we do know is that Arguello never achieved anything at 140 lbs and that Pryor had to cheat to get past him the first time.

We also know that Pryor did nothing of importance over 140 lbs.

And from that we can only guess how he would do against guys like Leonard and Hearns, who had big advantages in height and reach and who decimated WW contenders for fun. My guess is that he wouldn't fare too well.

 

He was the true welterweight champion ... for a whole nine months before he got knocked out.

I just don't consider him among the best welterweights who held the title. It wasn't a strong era, let's put it that way.

 

We don't have to guess how he'd do against Hearns. Pryor fought Hearns in 1976 and WON. Hearns had height and reach on him in 1976, and Hearns lost. We can see how he did against Hearns.

Hearns got better over the next five years, I've said that over and over. But so did Pryor,, WHICH NONE OF YOU SEEM TO ACKNOWLEDGE.

By 1981, only five pounds separated them (Pryor was fighting at 140, Hearns was fighting Leonard at 145). Over 15 rounds, I'd take Hearns. I've said that repeatedly.

But we don't have to "guess" what they'd look like in the ring together. We can watch them in the ring together.

Hearns' height and reach wasn't a problem WHEN THEY ACTUALLY FOUGHT. So you can forget that aspect of the fight. Pryor had no trouble hitting the much taller, much longer-armed Hearns when they fought.

Over 15, I give the edge to Hearns. But if anyone gets stopped, it's Tommy. Tommy had trouble taking Pryor's punch.

 

That's because we're rational people.

I think most here also see little sense in your claims that Pryor was about as great as Ali while Curry was just a champ among others and severely overrated, when in fact Pryor's and Curry's records are quite similar to each other while Ali's is way, way ahead in just about any metric.

 

When did I say Pryor was as great as Ali?

I said Pryor was voted the number-one junior welterweight of the 20th century by sportswriters and he was voted the second-best junior welterweight in history. And I said Ali was considered the best or second-best heavyweight in history.

They were both rated either one or two in their respective divisions all-time. That's what I said. Can you read?

You're the one bashing all-time great Alexis Arguello for "not achieving anything" at a weight class where he decided to challenge arguably the best guy who ever fought at the weight instead of going for some lesser belt so he could "achieve something" in your mind.

Guys like Arguello should be applauded for challenging the best in a division's history in that champ's prime ... instead of going after a paper belt. But you mock him for it.

And name any Hall of Famer Donald Curry beat? Hell, name any Hall of Famer Curry managed to even last the distance against?

There's a reason Pryor was a first ballot Hall of Famer, as was Cervantes, as was Arguello.

And there's a reason why NOBODY Curry beat is in the Hall and why Curry isn't there either. The guys Curry beat weren't that good. And Curry wasn't good any time he stepped up.

Curry gets floored on his way to outpointing some unknown, never-was Korean for a vacant belt. Pryor blows out a Hall of Famer for the title.

Pryor defends twice against another all-time great, Curry unifies with Milton McCrory and gets knocked out by Honeyghan nine months later, and he's comparable?

You are anything but "rational."

For all the crap the Hall of Fame voters get, at least they are "rational" enough not to vote in Curry.

Hell, if Keith Holmes beats Danny Garcia, Holmes' welterweight credentials will be better than Curry's. Wake up. Curry wasn't anything special.

 

In this conversation:

Jesus, you're silly. Stating that Arguello had no wins of importance at 140 lbs is not bashing him, it's simply a fact. Just like Robinson had no wins at LHW. Their undisputed greatness at lower weights make this no less of a fact.

 

Regarding your example, Arguello knocked out Billy Costello for god's sake. Costello was the WBC junior welterweight champ SIX MONTHS before that fight. Had Ray Robinson knocked out a former light heavyweight champ (like Gus Lesnevich or Freddie Mills) in four rounds six months after that guy lost the title, I'm sure that would've been seen as a significant win for Robinson.

You don't seem to know much about the division, the fighters in it, OR EVEN WHEN IT BEGAN.

And, again, I was referring to Ali and Pryor's ratings in their respective divisions. Which the quotes you pulled clearly show if you read them.