Were Title Claimants Real World Champs? Their Challengers Real Contenders?

Kid McCoy, had a somewhat defendable claim to the heavyweight title, no one mentions it though.

 

No idea lol.

 

You're right, it can be sketchy, especially the early part of the 20th century as you say. When Ketchel abdicated by way of a bullet, there were a host of fighters claiming the middleweight title with no real organization there to rein them in. As opposed to when Mickey Walker vacated his crown - by that time - there was the NYSAC and the NBA to anoint their champs. As a rule - and everyone has their own criteria - I don't give much credence to White, Colored, Interim, IBU, any organization south of WBO and, other than NY, I don't give any attention to US state recognized champs (like Charlie Shipes recognized by California or Kenny Lane recognized by Michigan). And its had to give any attention to sole countries passing off a fighter as champ such as Les Darcy (Australia) or Lee Savold (Britain). I do recognise lineal, NBA, NYSAC, WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO. It gets convoluted so I say it's up to the individual to meet your own criteria. But I wouldn't want to tell guys like Anglemann he wasn't a champ. Even a paperish title would be like a bauble to them.

 

Don't forget a guy named Davey Day, Armstrong was to fight the winner of the Pedro Montanez vs. Davey Day match, upon his return from England. Will, Mr. Day the skinny kid from Chicago, ripped open Pedro's eye from its socket and took Pedro's heart from his vaulted chest, Pedro was never the same after this fight. It was Davey who put Pedro on the skids, permanently. Armstrong wanted no part of Davey, and fought the loser Montanez. Davey said, "I softened Montanez up for that guy, he should be fighting me." Mike Jacobs made this bout, sidetracking Mr. Day, as Uncle Mike didn't want to lose his Gold Goose, much to Davey's credit of being too good. Davey was the #1. Lightweight & Welterweight challenger for both titles. Armstrong was lucky to beat Davey in their first match. The referee looked at Armstrongs bloody face and said, "you can rest now" stopping the fight at 2:49 of the 12th rd. giving Hank a tko. Armstrong was carried out of the ring still wearing his crown. Hank was damaged goods after the fight, suffering deep gash in his left eye requiring four stitches, broken right hand, placed in a caste, severely bruised left hand, marks all over his face. Davey fought him handicapped with a closed peeper and other just a squint from the sixth rd to the end of the 12th. Armstrong didn't hit Davey with his mitts that caused damaged to his eyes, but it was his elbows. In the 11th rd Armstrong came out and hit Davey five times south of the boarder, and was penalized for the rd. The referee didn't count all the others, except one. Davey fought Ambers in a non-title match in 1937 and gave the champ a real beating, only to lose a split decision. The NY fans booed lustily, he was robbed. Both Champions were offered $35,000 for a re-match with Mr. Day and turned it down.The N.B.A stripped Ambers of his title for not fighting Mr. Day on March 23rd. 1940. Davey Day was in the same stable with Barney Ross, that prevented him from becoming the lightweight champion in 1934. He was Barney's policeman, you had to beat Davey to get a shot at Ross. The great champion Jimmy McLarnin said it all, "that if Davey Day wasn't in the same camp as Ross, he would have been the Champion, as Davey was a great fighter." Canzoneri, Jenkins, and Zivic shun Mr Day. The N.B.A selected the 2nd ranked fighter Sammy Angott to fight Davey for the lightweight title. It was originally scheduled for Chicago, but it was changed to Louisville. Sammy's own manager Charlie Jones was a banker in Louisville, sent for Jack Dempsey to be the soul referee and judge of this title bout, paying all his expenses and fees. Davey was the favorite going into this fight, beating Sammy previously in 12 rds. The Louisville Boxing Commissioner, Johnson Mattingley shelved the usual two judge and referee system, a championship bout no less. Dempsey made Angott the champion by one point, and earned his money. Nowhere, else, but Louisville, Davey would loss to Angott, because there would be three judges to vote It was a setup to have Dempsey make Angott the Champion. That is all for now, if you have any questions, please let me know.
Let me add one last tid-bit, Davey Day never suffered a cut eye in over 250 amateur and pro fights, name me any other fighter who can claim that! Defensively nobody was better!!! Everything stated is verified. Thank you.

 

My oh My , impressed are we, you know your stuff, long may you post.

 

Mike, thanks for your comment. I forgot to mention Mike Silver said, "Davey Day is the REAL UNCROWNED CHAMPION."

 

Thanks Mike. I added another statement from Mike Silver.

 

It is a fact that the NYSAC was controlled by Mike Jacobs, as they sided with him on every picked, opponent to be matched with his Champions. Case in point, the NBA stripped Lou Ambers of his title for not Fighting Mr. Day on 3/22/1940. Mike Jacobs immediately signed Lew Jenkins, 4th ranked bum to be matched with Ambers for the title. This is when the N.B.A. and NYSAC split, recognizing Ambers has their champion. Mike Jacobs wanted to keep his champions from losing any title. The NYSAC refused to see Davey Day, claiming that he has been campaigning in the welterweight division for sometime and he is not a lightweight. Davey was a natural lightweight. Davey beat the #1 welterweight contender Pedro Montanez , after the fight, Davey said, " I am still a lightweight and want to campaign among them instead of the welters. They're too big for me as a rule, though I do want Armstrong again." ...... You can see and read the clippings and pic, if you go to Ebay and put in search, Davey Day nailing Ambers, with complete verified narrative in two pic lots of ( Goldstarstamps) seller. You do not have to buy anything to learn what it was like fighting in the Golden age of Boxing. It includes, Barney Ross, Baby Arizmendi, Tony Canzoneri, Armstrong, Ambers, Jenkins, Angott, Montanez, Zivic and Sugar Ray Robinson. All this information is in the description of each lot, there are two listed. Don't miss out. Thank you.