Were we lied to about Johnson vs Ketchel?

I believe McVey and particularly he grant have it right.

 

The kd of Johnson was legit. He got the benefit of a long count. Stanley won in my book.

 

Well there’s something I’ve learned.

 

The story is that Willus Britt Ketchel's manager approached Johnson for a title shot and said I know Stan has no chance with you in a straight fight take it easy on him and make it look good.Ketchel was not privy to the arrangement.

 

There were no teeth in his glove but some were knocked out. Willus Britt his manager ,wore one on his watch chain after wards.Ketchel was out for over 12 minutes.

 

Johnson appears to be caring Burns to, or any fight where his opponents is too small or tired. It's his his style.

After the fight the press reported Johnson was in a daze from the knockdown. Johnson said his jaw was never so sore. Ketchel took a beating, but did manage to mark Johnson up on one occasion and floor him on another.

The punch landed behind the head. Johnson was down, had to roll over and brace himself to get up and after deviling the KO blow, lost his balance got up then rested with his back on the ropes for support. his back on the ropes.

There was some coning in pre fight to sell tickets. Ketechel wore boots to make himself look taller for the photos, and I find his reported weight of 170 to be utter BS. Rickard was worried about a small middle in the ring with a heavyweight. Did Ketchel even step on the scales? He looks under 160 pounds. The story of the fix came after Ketchel's death. The fight was real, and Johnson though victories was exposed. Ketchel wasn't as bad as some of Johnson opponents, he was only smaller. Ross for example was a joke of a title match, but he didm aged to sting Johnson with the only solid punch he landed.

 

Johnson tried to duck the punch and got caught on the top back portion of the head.

 

Still peddling the story that Johnson was dazed and needed the ropes to support himself? He stands there and nonchalantly brushes resin off his gloves.LOL Im pleased you still stick to this nonsense ,it clearly shows you up for the hating fool you are!

 

What's wrong with you? I am quoting the press who was there at ringside that said he was dazed. Re-read that again. Who are you to say different? I have posted the press articles before. You read them and forgot, or didn't bother to read them. Either way its in print and I quoted Johnson accurately too. He said his jaw was never so sore, which is alarming as Ketchel who could hit for his size didn't land much! I have to laugh, I post something then its as if your waiting all day to see it and reply back in minutes.

If this fight was fixed, which other fight were fixed with Johnson? Do tell.

Also, do you think Ketchel is close to 170 pounds? At his height 170 his much thicker looking. He's a small shorter middle, and rather thin, period.

PS: Can you tell us the purse you on Johnson vs Johnson? You said you knew. Liar, liar.

PPS: I will buy the " Incredible Blackness " book you mentioned, if I can find a copy.

 

The question was not addressed to you.Imo he begins to fall as soon as he sees the punch coming.
NB You are wrong about the fix stories .The S F Chronicle speculated the next day that Johnson's kd was faked.
" The strong suspicion was that the punch was not that good and Johnson intentionally went down to increase the market value of the films so he could make even more money"
The SF Call said,"now the question is;was the battle on the square ,or did Johnson take his ungraceful stumble for the purpose of swelling the gate receipts of the moving picture shows that are to follow,or had he stalled up to this point to help the wise bettors on the 15round end of it?

Johnson had predicted a win inside 15rds and bet on himself to do that.
You've been corrected on this before and by me so why you repeat this BS is a mystery, as is the fact that you even comment on it since you've never read the next day newspaper reports which speculated on the possibility of it being a staged fight! Ive provided two example of contemporary next day reports which cast doubts on the genuiness of Johnson's knock down there are more,but two show that as usual , you don't know WTF you are talking about!

 

1 ) Stop trying to take the narrative, he was floored and you find far less papers that say the knockdown was faked. The majority of papers said he was floored. I bet I can find far more papers that say the KD was not faked. You know it, and so do I, so stop finding one odd source and acting like it's the truth. You're so dishonest. END OF.

2 ) Why would Johnson bet on himself? Ketchel was over matched. This means nothing, also if there was an " agreed draw " he would not make money on his bet.

3 ) Which other fights were fixed for Johnson? The guys a liar, who claims to have beaten Griffin...no one saw it, and says he took a dive vs Willard with is utter BS! What just him here after Ketchel died and could not speak on the topic

4 ) Are you going to deny the press at hand said he was dazed after the fight. They did, so STFU on that already.

5 ) Can you tell us the purse you on Johnson vs. Johnson? You said you knew. Liar, liar. So post it here.

Now for the opinions

Do you think Ketchel was 170 pounds? He looks under 160 to me.

Now I've got things to do today. Have fun distorting the facts.

 

Please provide us with the newspaper reports that state Johnson was "dazed".
I have a feeling these sources will evaporate, just as the ones about Johnson quitting to Klondike did!
You are a very sad individual.
If you hadn't challenged me to a fight and then,backed out,whenI asked you for your flight details .
If you had accepted my offer for a straightener when I visited the US,an offer which included my itinary ,and holiday address.
If you hadn't reneged on the bet about whether the Fitzsimmons v Ruhlin fight was filmed.
I might have been able to cut you some slack.As it stands. I despise you as lying ,racist , bet welching, first class ****.

 

Unlike you I post what I have. How dare you call anyone racists, you were BANNED for starting a racist thread. For shame. Everyone knows you are a bet welter. And a multiple poster names? Why? To hide from your reputation, I say. Fitz vs Ruhlin was filmed. How it came out or whether it can be seen today is anther issue. That was he bet. You lost. Two ebooks say Johnson quit vs Klondike, Unforgivable Blackness, and Papa Jack. You do like and quote Roberts.

You remain a coward, and a liar. Why do I wasted time on your?

A report from the New York Times - Oct, 17 - 1909 gives the account -

Round One - " The champion scored almost immediately with a HARD left"

Round Two - "In a clinch Ketchel uppercut HARD to the jaw with his left, this angered the champion."....Ketchel's face showed grim determination as he took his corner"

Round Four - Ketchel missed a TERRIFIC right...it was a close shave...and missed him barely an inch"

Round Five - "Johnson then sent Ketchel's head back with two straight lefts to the nose"

Round Six - " Ketchel was met with two lefts that started the blood flowing..."

Round Seven - "Ketchel used the...shoulder as a mat with which to stop the flowing blood from his nostrils"
"Ketchel swung his left with TERRIFIC force and caught the champion solidly on the jaw, raising a big lump that was perceptible to the spectators."

Round Eight - "Ketchel worked in a HARD right uppercut to the jaw"...."Ketchel missed a TERRIFIC right-swing and almost went through the ropes from the force of his effort"

Round Ten - "...Johnson getting Ketchel against the ropes, sent a right wallop to the stomach and Ketchel winced..."

Round Eleven - "Ketchel's face was badly battered..."

Sure, sure. Ketchel agreed to this type of damage on a " fix ", and so did Johnson. NOT

Read the fight report, which says Johnson was

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from the knockdown, and Johnson himself saying his jaw was never so sore.

READ THE BOLD TYPE HEADLINE Johnson dazed as Ketchel goes out. Bahwhahahaha.... Wrong again Tony.

[url]https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1909/10/17/101040198.pdf[/url]

Now can you show me the purse of Johnson vs Johnson, you bald face liar? Even Pollack, your hero said it's unknown.

Where can I get a copy of this Incredible Blackness Book?

See, I reply to your questions, you duck mine.

Ever wonder why so many posters have issues with you?

 

The knockdown looks a bit odd but I see ones just as odd every month. Given Johnson's reaction, I tend to think it was legit.

 

You stated the stories of a fix did not come out till after Ketchel's death.
Here is your post.

"The story of the fix came after Ketchel's death".

Its untrue the next days papers were full of speculation that Johnson had not only carried Ketchel but faked the KD to add value to the film rights and I posted two of the reports to prove my point.

Will you now admit this or ignore it?
You and I hada bet that the Ruhlin v Fitzsimmons fight was filmed.
You said it was I said it wasntand I have the backing of Pollack, Klompton , and Gilbert Odd on this the fight was not filmed because the equipment failed. A re-enactment was filmed by Lublin and passed off as the real fight.
Gilbert Odd, in his biography of Fitzsimmons goes into detail about how Ruhlin had to be
made up with stage make up to hide his cuts and bruises.Jim Corbett had been Ruhlin's chief second and very rpominet in shouting out advice throughout the fight . After the fight Corbett had returned to San Francisco he refused to come back for the re-enactment and when the fake fight was shown his absence was noted and the game was up ! The public realised it was not the real fight.
Your excuse for not honouring the bet was there was a filmed re-enactment of it and therefore that counts as the realfight being filmed.This is as shameless piece of cheating and bet welching as I have ever seen.
And one you have no embarrassment about mentioning!

Ive proposed another bet for you to welch on you keep saying I am lying about knowing what money Johnson received for the Battling Jim Johnson fight.Despite the fact that I have told you which book the answer is in, the chapter and the page on which it can be found.

Now I'll challenge you ,If I give you the answer,if I tell you how much Johnson received for the Jim Johnson fight will you leave this site for good and never return ?
You've done plenty of shouting for the answer ,and I'm prepared to give it to you straight from Ward's Unforgivable Blackness.
The only price is your permanent banishment from here.
So if Im lying and you prove it ,Ill leave.
If I'm telling the truth and I prove it, you leave!
Will you accept the challenge YES OR NO?