What 21 year old fighter was greater than Tyson from the Spinks fight?

Mike looked like **** against Douglas and that's on him. It hurts his legacy. Saying he didn't train right isn't an excuse.

 

I agree.

 

Tyson was an early KO artist.
Holmes schooled Berbick over 15 rounds, Tyson obliterated him in 2.
It says nothing much about how good they were. Just different styles, different strengths.

Foreman obliterated Frazier in 2 but loses to Ali in 8, etc.

Shavers sparked Norton out in 1 round ! This wasn't long after Norton gave prime Holmes a hell of a lot of trouble over 15 rounds !
But Holmes had already defeated Shavers, and he would beat him again.

Holmes at 42 actually went 12 rounds with an undefeated 29-year-old Holyfield.
Tyson at 30 years old was stopped in 11 rounds by a more war-torn 34-year-old Holyfield.

 

How about putting Spinks away in seconds instead of losing twice to him (Larry was old, WAH!)?

How about putting Williams away in a round instead of almost losing to him?

How about beating the absolute **** out of Thomas instead of forgetting to fight him?

 

Yes, Holmes was old against Spinks, but those are not good results for him. Tyson lost some fights too, by the way.

Williams was KO'd in 2 by an old Weaver as well, but prime Holmes beat a prime Weaver. So ...

You really think any of this proves anything about how Tyson and PRIME Holmes would match ?

 

Oh, look a nice triangle theory to "disprove" what I said.

Tyson habitually did better against the same opponents as Holmes, and they weren't past prime, and knocked Larry Holmes out cold.

FOH.

 

You're the one who brought triangle theory to the discussion. Your whole argument is triangle theory.

The only opponent that fought prime Holmes and prime Tyson was Trevor Berbick, who Holmes schooled over 15 rounds.
Yes, Tyson was a bigger puncher, an early KO artist, and put Berbick out in 2 rounds, very impressively.

But do you really think any of this makes an argument for Holmes-Tyson prime-for-prime ?

 

But Holmes was.
Holmes was past prime against Bonecrusher (who he stopped), Williams and Spinks.
Holmes was already past prime when he knocked out Marvis Frazier in 1 round as well.
Who else is there?

Berbick's the only one who fought prime Holmes.

 

Smith was coming off the biggest win of his career.

Williams was prime for Tyson. He was inexperienced for Holmes.

It’s circular horse**** to pretend Spinks wasn’t prime because Tyson trampled him.

There is no argument for Holmes prime for prime. He got his ass kicked when he had his chance and struggled against guys who Tyson outclassed.

 

Every excuse in the book, like I said earlier. He must have been green or past prime when Shavers and Snipes smashed him.

 

Wait a second, are you saying Holmes wasn't old and past prime at age 35/'36 ?

You really think me calling Holmes past prime at that stage is "every excuse under the book" ?

 

There are patterns in Holmes’ performances, such as getting drilled with overhand rights and barely winning in cherry picks gone wrong.

I guess we can write off the time he barely beat a 15-0 unknown in 83 too. He must have been past his prime.

Try to imagine Norton almost beating Tyson or Cooney giving and taking until falling apart in the late rounds against Tyson? Not in a million years.

 

Witherspoon was a good fighter. Yes, Holmes was starting on his decline in 1983.

Tyson lost to Douglas in his prime, so I'm not even sure what you are arguing here. Every champion has tough fights.

 

It’s a shame about the rematch with Tim and Williams, isn’t it?

Tyson had a one off horrible performance against Douglas due to pathetic training, but it wasn’t a pattern. If you want a pattern, he abandoned a lot of his skill set in the late 80s and early 90s, but won anyway except against Douglas.

 

This is a triangle theory argument.
It's silly.
Norton beat Ali. I guess that means Tyson is better than Ali, because you can't imagine Norton beating Tyson.

I can't imagine Holmes being KO'd in his prime in 10 mostly one-sided rounds by Buster Douglas. Still, that doesn't tell me anything about Holmes-Tyson, prime for prime.