What are some boxing myths that can be broken with FACTS?

Of course he wasn't a bum.
But I can't credit Patterson with being a great heavyweight simply because he could have made light-heavyweight. He gets judged against the division he fought within.

If a guy ends up on the floor a lot because he "has a style of jumping in", it's a mark against him. Doing it when you're the champion of the world against a man making his pro debut is downright unforgivable.

If Patterson wasn't such a nice and humble guy I think people wouldn't be so generous in their appraisals. If he'd been a cocky *****, or was a thuggish character, or (heaven forbid !) British, no one would try claiming him as one of the great heavyweights.
(Although that's just me speculating)

 

Myth or Facts.

1954/1955 was the perfect time to re-structure the Light Heavyweight and
Heavyweight Divisions.
Growing bodies of athelete's and increased weight gaining regimen's.

Were there a good 20 fighters, campaigning in the 200+ weight range.

 

But who has him as "one of the great heavyweights"? I haven't seen one top 10 with him in it, I think.

 

im sure vglad someone said this as its 100% true. Great poster of a lot of things IL Duce is, he lets it down by his obvious hatred of Ali, not only that, he says he doesnt when the evidence is in every post he makes

 

nontheless he was no2 right? And if thats the case then i fail to see the point in your original post other than to inadvertantly have a go,or diminish, Alis achievements. Others may not see it but i do. You have a chip on your shoulder regarding this guy

 

**** you *****

TYSON KO8 ALI TYSON KO8 ALI FLOYD PATTERSON HAS A BABIES CHIN TYSON KO2 ALI

 

Seriously though great thread.

I enjoyed reading it.

 

which, if im correct, at the time, clay was fighting round about the 190 mark too. He certainly was when fighting duke sabadong

 

Sparring doesnt mean ****. I will never understand some peoples fascination with sparring incidents. Ali was knocked down in sparring by Jimmy Ellis, look what happened when they met.

Spadafora ran Mayweather ragged in sparring, and while I personally think at the time that would have been an intriguing match, I would also have to favor Floyd.

Greb gave Dempsey hell in sparring, once again, an intriguing match but you have to favor Dempsey.

Ali gave Johannson problems in sparring (and yes I have the films as well and its not as comprehensive a boxing lesson as some stories would lead you to believe) but Johannson would have to be favored at that point based on his experience level. That story, more often than not, is told not to bring Johannson down, or pretend Ali was rdy to win a world title at that moment, but to illustrate that he was already showing the promise of a future champ at a time when he wasnt being taken terribly serious by the press.

 

Myth: Jack Dempsey never fought Mike Tyson

FACT: They did! Here's the footage:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqMi97-U7VI[/ame]
lol
www.eslubin.com/eslubin

 

The point I was making, is that you could have taken pretty much
every fighter ranked #2 thru #15, during that time, put their names in a hat and pulled one out.
And, it would have made virtually no difference in the talent pool.
They were all equally mediocre.
Even the #16 thru #20 ranked fighters weren't that far off from the
Top 5.

How do you get, from me mentioning Ernie Terrell as the so-called
'second best heavyweight', to knocking Ali.

 

Ingo vs. Cassius Clay sparring session.
Monday, February 6, 1961

Fact;
This was the 1st day of Ingo's 5-week training preparation, for his upcoming title
flight versus Floyd Patterson (for March 13).

Ingo was over 220 lbs., 25+ lbs. over his prime fighting weight.

This was not prime Ingo in the ring.

 

That's how I've also always viewed it. Fantastic what proportions it has gotten to in this thread.

I wonder who masterminded the story of Young saying that 16-year old Tyson beat him up in sparring? That must of course also have been a dark plot to promote a future champ.

 

Interesting stuff. I didn't know it was Ingemar's first day of training/sparring. There's no wonder he didn't look good. It's not even a particularly impressive feat for young Clay to look good against him, considering the massive gulf in condition.

Johansson came into the 3rd Patterson fight in the worse shape of his career. Even in his subsequent fights he managed to get his weight down to about 200. I think he managed 207 against Patterson, and was coming off that brutal KO loss to Floyd as his only fight in the previous 20 months !
Some 'experts' had expressed the opinion that Johansson shouldn't be fighting, and was in serious danger of being killed. Gene Tunney caused a stir by suggesting that Johansson was most likely brain damaged from the KO loss to Floyd and it was a disgrace it the fight goes through. I think he had to address the boxing commission and the make a statement to the Federal investigators about his concerns.
Other less dramatic writers all noted that Johansson appeared horribly out of shape so soon to the fight.

He actually turned out to be competitive against Floyd Patterson though, which is explained more from the fact that Patterson's was a flakey champion rather than Johansson being in any sort of decent condition.

I'm surprised he sparred with ANY fighter in public on his first day of training.

 

Fight Publicists can create some wonderful things.
THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE PAID TO DO.

On a more truthful note.
The story, that there were no sparring partners available for Ingo.

Total Hogwash,,!!

Ingo's sparring partners who were already at the Sea Breeze Hotel.
Tony Esperti (Brooklyn, New York, Heavyweight, based in Miami Beach)
Joey La Quatra (Pittsburg, Heavyweight)
Billy Stephan (St. Louis, Light Heavyweight)
Pekka Kokkonen (Finland, Light Heavyweight)