What are your acceptable terms for a catchweight

Marquez called out Floyd after the Pac fight, the only alternative was to make him gain 16lbs

 

In a welterweight championship fight either boxer can weigh in at any weight they chose to as long as it is no higher than 147. The rules of the sport state that welterweight has a weight limit of 147. There is nothing wrong with having a light welterweight or even lightweight champion fight a welterweight champion. With a limit higher than140 but lower than 147. However to change the rules to make it more convenient for one of the boxers to win a championship should not be alowed.

 

First of all, there isn't a floor, just the ceiling.

Second - yeah. Exactly. Divisions are up to a certain limit. Welterweight is up to 147. No welterweight championship bout should have any contractual stipulation that either participant be restricted from coming in under any maximum other than 147. Ever.

 

this.

as long as both parties agreed to a contracted weight no matter it is a catchweight or not. and also as long as both fighters made the agreed-upon weight.

 

No rule is being changed. What rule? They must weigh within the limits of the WW division. That is the ONLY rule I am aware of. If two guys agree to weigh 142 pounds, well guess what, they BOTH agreed to it. As long as both guys weigh the same, or one guy less of HIS OWN acord, then us fans really have nothing to complain about. BOTH parties came to an agreement.

It's you floyd fanboys who have blown this up to ridiculous proportions in attempts to discredit Pacquiao. You assume if the WW champ weighs less then 147, he MUST be drained. And that's been repeated so often I'm sure namy actually think that's 100% true.

 

There is a floor, in the matter of seperating the divisions, which is what I was talking about. Thanks though.

You're rule doesn't exist any more then the one suggesting a challenger has to "take" the belt from the champ. They don't. If two guys want to fight at 141 for the WW title, so be it. They must agree to a weight, and honor that agreement. That's it. Fans can ***** and moan about it, but if the fighters are fine with it, then the bothing an moaning is just that, bitching and moaning.

 

Two guys that would normally operate in different divisions, meeting at a fair point to make a fight happen.

Titles, especially if they're just paper ones, don't mean **** all to me. Sometimes the fight itself is worth more than the belt - Pacquiao vs Cotto is a prime example. When talking about that fight, does anyone praise it for the belt Pacquiao picked up? No. They praise it for the type of opponent Pacquiao jumped up to beat.

 

The thing is fighters will agree to a catch weight even if it isn't in their best interest, if it's the ONLY way to get a fight with an opponent who brings in a lot of money.. Fighters fight for money, they're not always going to do what's in their best interest, which means we don't always get the best fight possible.. If in all championship fights both fighters were allowed to weigh in at anything up to the limit we wouldn't have this issue. And if you don't believe you can face someone weighing in at the full limit, don't fight for the title in that weight class.

Example being Broner/Escobedo.. Plenty of people were claiming he shouldn't take the fight under those weight circumstances, but he took the fight.. Majority believe he took the fight still because of the money thrown at him.. It's not exactly the same, but fighters will sign on to a catch weight where they're clearly the only one disadvantaged, because of money it would bring in or they're being pressured from Promoters etc.. Then we don't get the best possible fight between the two, which is what I hear most saying their argument is for catch weights.

 

there is no weight minimum in any fight BTW

 

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They are supposed to weigh what they agree to. And the reason fighters agree to the same limit is to show both guys are on the same playing field, whether that's true or not. But how ,many guys have given in to a CWQ who were not already making good money? WHebn Pac had Cotto go down two pounds, it's not like Cotto was making chump change. He can afford to say "No" to something like that. As for the best possible fight, you realize ALL that is based on speculation. Just because 95% of the Floyd fanboys say Cotto was drained, doesn't make it fact. Just as Dawson going to 168 doesn't automatically mean he's drained. The Broner - Escobedo situation isn't quite the same, as Broner ignored the weight agreement not once, but twice. As I've said from the beginning, if both guys agree to it, AND make the weight, the fans really have nothing to complain about. It's just nitpicking.

 

I agree the intention of catch-weights are to have them on the same playing field, I just don't believe it to be true in all cases. Good money is not great money. In the two examples you put, the fighters are making far more in that bout than they usually/previously made I'm quite sure. Cotto could afford to say no, but who else would he have made the same money with? Bring in the fact that Arum was the promoter of both, I'm sure it was a lot of pressure on Cotto to take the fight lower than 147 because Pac refused to go that high and he's the cash cow. Cotto himself said he wouldn't drain himself for Pac again, stop acting like it's just Floyd Fans. Dawson himself requested the fight at 168 initially, so I agree he's not automatically drained. We will see if he truly can fight at 168 as effectively, or if he did it as a money grab/high profile fight getter.

I agree, I said Broner/Escobedo isn't exactly the same.. But the point is Escobedo took the fight knowing he was at a disadvantage because of the weight, because of the pay attached to it. I believe fighters take catch weight fights for the same reason.. Do you agree?

 

Cotto also said he felt fine for their first fight. Going to conveneiently leave that out? Sure there was pressure on Cotto. So? I go by what I see, and there was nothing in that fight that said Cotto was a drained fighter. Has it even occurred to you PAc didn't go that high because he was just fought weighing 138 IMMEDIATELY before Cotto? It's not like he was at 140 for many fights, and decided to move up. these were very intiguing matchups involving Pac due to his stature. A CW is only common sense there.

Escabedo's situation, again, wasn't even remotely close, even when discussing the money. He doesn't have options like somoene in Cotto's position does. Cotto makes damn good money, so I doubt he saw the Pac fight, and the check involved, and said "Oh my, I MUST take that for the money!!" It was a major fight, and Cotto being the warrior he is, took it.

 

Cotto was also still signed to Top Rank.. Coincidence he said it immediately after he got from under Arum? Wasn't signed to fight anyone else yet so I see no reason to say it other than Pac tried to get him to come down again, and he being a free agent was able to speak his mind on the situations. He very well could not have been drained, but its from the man's own mouth and he had to focus on making 145 instead of training naturally not worrying about weight. I didn't say Pac had to come up to 147, he could have easily fought someone other than Cotto for Cotto's belt if he didn't feel comfortable fighting someone at the full WW limit. It was a very intriguing match up, one I wish and I believe Cotto wishes could have been fought at the full WW limit. It could have happened later on down the line when Pac felt comfortable fighting a WW at the full WW limit, and still would have been a great match up. The fight simply did not HAVE to happen at that moment, and a lot of people on here act like it had to happen then under that catch weight or it wouldn't have period.

My question to you is how much of a better place is Cotto in now financially? Do you believe he's less of a warrior now than back then? If so, why? If not, why did he refuse to take that fight at 147 last time Pac asked? Wouldn't a warrior want to avenge his loss, if that's what he's fighting for and the weight isn't an issue?

Cotto took that fight under a disadvantage to him because Arum was his promoter and Pac was the big money fight for Top Rank. He is now no longer under Top Rank, and doesn't have to disadvantage himself for a big fight.