What boxers did Rocky Marciano consciously and deliberately duck, if any?

The issue is twofold, but nobody said it was earthshaking-were reports so very incorrect, & we are interested in the

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of his height.

Also to figure out how he was built.

But nobody was claiming that either weight or bulk is unusual for someone who just turned 20.

 

The 2 fighters Marciano fought over 200lbs who were not journeymen were 37 years old Louis and fat Cockell.6 of his 49 opponents were under 180lbs. 8 of the 49 had losing records another 3 were debutees.
I count 10 of Marciano's opponents being over 200lbs.
Of Louis' 69 opponents 18 were over 200lbs. As well as those 4 Louis opponents over 200lbs you mentioned, he has Nova,Farr,M Baer ,Uzcudun,Godoy.I think we can agree these are appreciably better than;
Eatman won 1 of last 8
Donato won 2 of last 7
Hardeman won 1 of last 5
Simmons won 3 of last 5
Wilson won 2 of last 5
Connolly won 4 of last 9

 

He did. He out jabbed the Prince of jabs. Holmes knew he got a lucky decision that night but that luck was due to run out a few months later…

 

You make the good point that Louis fought more good men over a much longer period and more good big men. Let's look at Joe's over 200 lb. opponents.

Jack O'Dowd--had a good statistical record, but was coming in off a KO loss to Eddie Simms.
Stanley Poreda--faded contender who had lost 4 of his last 5.
Biff Bennett--13-15-1 record
Primo Carnera
Max Baer
Paulino Uzcudun--was 36 and hadn't won a fight in 2 and 1/2 years. Was 7-7-1 over his last 15 fights.
Jorge Brescia--had only had 8 fights. Had 8-0 record coming in. Ended career 16-12.
Young Stanley Ketchell--7-13-1 record
Tommy Farr
Jack Roper--64-40-11 journeyman
Tony Galento
Arturo Godoy--had lost 2 of his last 4, to Valentin Campolo and Eduardo Primo. A durable fighter who gave Louis a tough time in their first fight, but looking at his overall record, it seems more a style thing than that he was outstanding.
Abe Simon--coming in off a loss to the ordinary Jim Thompson.
Buddy Baer--had a very impressive statistical record and was coming in off a stoppage of Galento. But had lost his previous fight to Eddie Blunt.
Lou Nova
Buddy Baer--had not fought since losing the first Louis fight.
Abe Simon--came into the second Louis fight off a KO loss to Lem Franklin.

Certainly a more impressive group of big men overall than Marciano beat. But Lee Savold was one fight away--a bad loss to Joe Louis--from being the #2 contender and actually being recognized as the world champion in Britain. I can't see considering him just a journeyman and Nova a formidable contender when Savold KO'd Nova twice.

But the real problem is why should we focus on these heavier men rather than on Max Schmeling (192), Ezzard Charles (184 1/2), or Marciano (184), each of whom defeated Louis,

or on Billy Conn (174) or Jersey Joe Walcott (194 1/2) who were among his best victims and on balance gave him his toughest goes.

The same is true of Marciano. Except for Louis, the big men were not his toughest opponents.

 

who cares? Archie Moore went 22-1 with 19 knockouts against men above 200lb. The best heavyweights of that era were the smaller slicker men as judged by archie Moore going 3-0 vs Nino Valdes and Bob Baker

Louis at age 37 was the same size as Valdes and Baker and probably still just as good despite being 37 years old. Marciano took care of him in 8.

There was no big man of the era that could threaten marcianos throne and though a Valdes or baker defense would have been a nice highlight reel on film, Marciano beat the best of his era


Louis without question beat the better big men than Marciano did but Louis himself was big for the era at 6’2 200lb in his prime and he even filled out to a lean rock solid 212lb in 1946-48

 

I didn't include Savold because he did not weigh over 200lbs when he fought Marciano.Hence my count of ten men over 200lbs for Rocky;Savold did not ko Nova in their 1 st fight, Nova's corner pulled him out because of bad cuts.No argument about the 2nd fight.
The "over 200lbs," was not my stipulation. But I hope we can agree Louis proved himself capable of beating prime class men over that scale and Rocky really didnt.

 

It wasn't me who raised the issue of weight,I just responded with some facts.Louis was six feet one and a half inches tall and ,when he fought Marciano ,a one handed fighter.
Baker and Valdes habitually scaled more than Louis.

 

Louis is listed as 6’2. Same height as baker and 1” shorter than Valdes.

“one handed fighter”.

Still good enough to knock Valdes out in 1 round in an exhibition and score 8 straight victories including over two rated in the top 10. Louis handled Agramonte, Brion, Bivins just as dominant as Baker did.

“habitually”

Louis scaled 213 3/4lb against Marciano

In Bob Baker’s most important fights he scaled:

212lb vs Clarence Henry
214lb vs Bob Satterfield
211lb vs Clarence Henry
227lb vs Nino Valdes I
209lb Vs Archie Moore
213lb vs Nino Valdes II (Title Eliminater)
211lb Vs John Holman (Title Eliminater)
213 1/2lb vs Hurricane Jackson II (Title Eliminater)

in regards to baker, you’re above statement is incorrect. He fought at the same size as Louis. outside of the outlier in Valdes I fight

In Nino Valdes’s most important fights he scaled:

209lb vs Ezzard Charles
204lb vs Hurricane Jackson
209lb vs Archie Moore II (Title Eliminater)
215lb vs Bob Satterfield
207lb vs Don Cockell
207lb vs Bob Baker II (Title Eliminater)

in regards to Valdes , you’re above statement is incorrect. He fought at the same size or lighter than Louis.

 

I think the best over 200 lb. man either fought, or at least close to the best, was the Joe Louis of 1951. Perhaps Max Baer of 1935 was better but I wouldn't bank on it. Carnera? I don't know. Buddy? If he could be outpointed by Blunt, he could be outpointed by old Louis.

Savold weighed 200 lbs. It is really trivial to try to cut it to a trip to the bathroom or taking a drink of water. I assumed it was 200 and up.

The bottom line is the best men under 200 lbs. for both of them, would have beaten most or all of the men over 200 lbs.

"Nova's corner pulled him out because of bad cuts"

Who caused the cuts?

Your argument is an argument based on lack of evidence which does not prove something can not possibly be true. We can say, for example, that the jaguar does not prey on any animal as big as a full grown moose or bison. It does not follow that a jaguar couldn't. They just don't share range. So I would say your point is at best weak, plus it ignores Joe Louis at 213 lbs.

 

"Archie Moore going 3-0 vs Nino Valdes and Bob Baker"

You could add Harold Johnson and Bob Satterfield to Moore. The little guys would then be 6-0 against Valdes and Baker.

 

Clarence Henry too went 2-0 vs baked at 185lb

 

“ But at an age when most fighters are 10 years retired, Archie Moore's long-postponed day is dawning. Last year he knocked out Harold Johnson to retain his light heavyweight title and took nine rounds to dispose of Bob Baker, Al Weill's idea of the next best thing for Rocky Marciano. This year Archie licked Nino Valdes, who had the No. 1 heavyweight contender rating, which should have put him in with Marciano, but out in San Francisco after the Cockell fight , Al Weill was still talking Bob Baker. How did Baker rate it if Old Arch had knocked him out and had twice beaten Valdes? The boxing business has a different logic from other sports. Especially when, as in the case of Mr. Weill, you are in charge of the logic.”- SI July 1955

 

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/micAAOSwZIRhZ4l-/s-l500.jpg

Interesting how Billy Conn looks taller than 6’2 Baker

 

I did a round by round on Marciano vs Baker one time

Here’s what I came up with

I suspect baker would come out fast trying to impose his size on marciano, but marciano will show baker no fear and come right into him.

bakers jab will find its mark early and his elegant boxing skills with his fast hands will allow him to build an early lead against much smaller slower starter in Marciano. Marciano would be very impressed with the speed in bakers combinations.

baker will tie up marciano strongly on the inside and then push off and find his outside leverage to score points with fast flurries of punches...cutting marcianos eye in round 3. When marcianos punches fall short, baker will make him pay with his jabs and uppercuts.

in round 4 Marciano begins to adjust really getting low and weaving in his crouch forcing baker to miss then Marciano begins to throw feints and trick baker so he can get inside. The plan works and he begins to pound away on the inside.

Come round 6, marciano starts to really get going. He staggers baker with a overhand right, then begins to throw punches with no end in sight. I count 110 punches. Marciano’s constant hammering away at baker’s whole body starts to break bob down mentally and physically.... baker walks back to his corner after round 6 with look of disbelief on his face that an opponent could put up that type of work rate.


Marciano continues to adjust to bakers size by getting lower and slips bakers jab more efficiently with weaves and ducks in his crouch and follows up with tremendous unorthodox bombs to bakers head and body.

By round 8, with the scorecards now slightly in marcianos favor...Bakers take one final short of do or die and after breaking out of a clinch with Marciano..baker leashes an all out aggresive attack where the two trade punches for a good minute. baker is shocked Marciano is still standing. baker lands some solid blows but marcianos just dosnt stop throwing punches...baker begins to tires while marciano continues to throw bomb after bomb until a long looping overhand right from marciano dumps baker on the seat of his pants for a 9 count.

baker get up showing immense heart but a fantastic flurrie of punches followed by a dip down clockwise left look from marciano puts baker down again.

baker amazingly gets up again dazed but the ref allows fight to continue. A hard left to the body from marciano, followed by right uppercut to the head, left hook to the head, and a final roundhouse right to the head sends baker flat on his back and out cold.

Marciano KO 8

Baker is very game. The crowd was very pleased with the fight. Baker with his size skills and handspeed pose a problem early for rock, but ultimately rocky is in a different class and rockys strength ackwardness power stamina and tenacity prove too much for baker as the fight goes on

 

Nope 17-1 and 4 of those were wrestlers.