What Can Canelo Do To Become A Top 20 ATG?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by TipNom, Nov 11, 2021.

  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    Sep 15, 2009
    I mean, I don't like saying this publicly too much because it encourages boxrec wizadry.

    But let's say Canelo finishes his career as he should, say he beats Beterbiev and becomes legitimate LHW champion.

    At that point he's basically only achieved the same as Dick Tiger.
    Rubber Glove Sandwich likes this.
  2. Young Terror

    Young Terror ★ Griselda ★ Full Member

    May 9, 2012
    Unify the HW division.
  3. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Aug 1, 2012
    And that same "10 year old child" gave Pacquiao a lot of problems on 4 different occasions the last time knocking him out cold.

    I do agree that there was a "much bigger guy" phenomena there when Marquez lost to Floyd. Sort of like when Mikey Garcia went up to fight Spence and got completely shutout. And yes it was supposed to be at a catchweight but Floyd came in over. I think there were many factors in play that led to that being so one-sided. Marquez moving up to WW too quickly for Floyd, and not filling out at the weight yet. Also the drug testing. I remember how odd it was during 24/7 seeing Marquez get drug tested and was drinking his own urine. That was just weird, it made seem like this was the first time he had ever been drug tested before and he somehow became convinced that drinking his own urine had some kind of health benefits or something. What a weirdo Marquez was for that whole thing, and I became more suspicious about Marquez right then and there. Marquez though went on to KO Pac at welterweight and have a competitive fight with Bradley there so he eventually showed that he could compete at 147 and have success at that weight.
    It's not misleading at all to point out how easily JMM was handled by Floyd. That's what happened, and it's relevant when evaluating how good Marquez really was "much smaller guy" syndrome or not, that happened and Floyd was coming out of a 2 year retirement himself. It looked to me like Marquez was affected by the drug testing and wasn't his usual self. Or he was harmed by drinking his own and that affected his performance. Or maybe it was the jumping up in weight too quickly, but he went on to have success at that same weight so something went on there that caused him to be shutout by Floyd and not by Pacquiao or Bradley. I don't know how you would explain that but it certainly "happened" so it's not misleading to reality to point that out. Marquez getting shutout by Mayweather was the reality, and if he was a "10 year old child" compared to Mayweather then why did this same "10 year old child" look like a world beater vs Pacquiao? Pacquiao the "much smaller guy" didn't seem to have any problem moving up to 154 and destroying the "much bigger guy" in Margarito.
  4. Olu G. Rotimi

    Olu G. Rotimi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    May 29, 2007
    I don’t think there is anything he can do
    to become a top 20 ATG. He had the chance when he fought Mayweather and lost been outclassed and thoroughly schooled. Which ATG is out there to move him up. None and potentially he could lose.
    tealt likes this.
  5. northpaw

    northpaw Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jun 5, 2010
    I don't think Canelo can ever become a top 20 ATG no matter what he does. That is a very, steep K2, Mt Everest peak to summit. I pretty much think that everyone in the top 20, although the order is interchangeable between them, that list is pretty static and there aren't gonna be any new entrants (at least until history forces everyone to forget about the guys of antiquity)
    Pepsi Dioxide likes this.
  6. tee_birch

    tee_birch Well-Known Member Full Member

    Jul 6, 2014
    Might want to compare their resumes
  7. IsaL

    IsaL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Oct 7, 2006
    20-50= -30?
    JSpizz and lufcrazy like this.
  8. IsaL

    IsaL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Oct 7, 2006
    Morales was shot. He had slowed down a lot, he was coming off a loss to Barrera who had also slowed down, and in his fight after his last hurrah vs Pacquiao he lost to Journeyman Zahir Raheem. After losing to Pac, Morales went life and death with David Diaz who was really a journeyman.
  9. DJN16

    DJN16 Boxing Addict Full Member

    Sep 15, 2013
    Beat Usyk then unify against Fury!
  10. Pepsi Dioxide

    Pepsi Dioxide Active Member Full Member

    Oct 22, 2020
    Top 20 ATG is a pretty giant mountain to climb. I'm really not sure what he could do even if everything went perfect for him. Completley ridiculous but unfies light heavy and puts up a good effort against the unified heavyweight champion.
  11. Jpreisser

    Jpreisser Active Member Full Member

    Jan 29, 2015
    Raheem was far from a journeyman. A lot of people thought he got dp'ed by the ref and the judges in Texas against Juarez and should have been given the decision against Freitas. He was similar in skill to Plant and probably has a greater legacy, at this point. Diaz wasn't a journeyman, either. He beat actual journeymen, like Augustus, Julio, and Franckel.

    Of course if Morales was "shot", it's unlikely he performs as well as he did against Maidana, Garcia, and Cano at 140. Morales was clearly past his best against Pacquiao in the third fight, there is no denying that, but Morales was still fairly good.
  12. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Aug 1, 2012
    Which was a great fight, I thought Morales turned back the clock in this one and arguably did enough to get the W against Diaz.

    But after Morales beat Pac, he fought Raheem and lost a decision. Yet despite the loss he ended up fighting Pacquiao again 4 months later, which was surprising at the time given that he just lost to Raheem. I think Pacquiao fought him any way because he really wanted revenge against Morales and didn't care that he just lost. But we have to take into consideration that Morales moved up to 135 to fight Raheem then had to go back down to 130 to fight Pac again just 4 months later on a short camp. Getting beat up by Raheem then cutting weight to get back down to SFW for Pacquaio so soon after that undoubtedly played a role in him getting stopped.

    So I think when we're evaluating Pacquiao's resume and the two stoppage wins over Morales, this was a Morales who was just coming off a loss to Raheem and was fading fast at that point. He did look better against David Diaz the next year, but that was back up at 135 where he didn't have to struggle to make weight like he had to do vs Pac and he had plenty of time off to prepare for Diaz.
  13. divac

    divac Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jul 24, 2004
    Most boxing historians dont have Hearns anywhere close to top 20. Hearns was to vulnerable at every weight class he fought in to be considered top 20. I'd rate Canelo over Hearns right now.
    Hearns was offensively more gifted than Canelo to be sure, but he falls well short of Canelo at every other category as Canelo was no where near as vulnerable as Hearns was.
    No way in my mind that Barkley beats Canelo, not even close.
  14. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    Sep 15, 2009
    Every boxing historian or fan will have their own top 20. It doesn't need validating by anyone else's. You'll have your own, that also doesn't need validating against anyone else's.

    Hearns is a greater WW and LMW than Canelo, that's not even up for dispute. He's also beaten a better LHW than Canelo has done and has been ranked number 1 in that division which Canelo hasn't done.

    As for Barkley, no one expected him to beat Hearns when they fought neither.

    I just don't see Canelo ever getting to Hearns level, but time will tell.
  15. pepsiclassic

    pepsiclassic Active Member Full Member

    Aug 7, 2019
    the haters will hate him less once he retires sort of like Floyd. I don't know where to put him because let's be honest 168 was a bunch of scrubs. Billy Joe Saunders, Caleb Plant even Callum smith will be forgot about over time.

    I feel Kovalev will Stand the test of time, but Kovalev already got the fight tooken out of him by Eledier Alvarez at that point.
    ButeTheBeast likes this.