There's currently an interesting thread on who else is qualified to be mentioned as the GOAT and it got me thinking about Charles. I see Ezzard's name constantly come up in top 10 lists but I don't think I've seen him mentioned as the GOAT once, which is strange considering how highly regarded he is. A lot of his top 10 ATG peers will get fringe mentions as the GOAT. Sam Langford, Harry Greb, Joe Gans, Gene Tunny, Henry Armstrong and of course SRR. Sometimes even Duran or SRL, but never the Mongoose, who always seems to be on the outside looking in. What would he have needed to do in his career to retire as the consensus GOAT? Beat Marciano? Please explain your thoughts.
It is disgusting that Ezzard never received a shot at the Lt.Heavy title. This leaves the impression that the man who was,arguably,the best ever 175lb boxer never reached the summit of his optimum division. To have been recognised as the P4P best he would more than likely have had to win all four of the Jersey Joe Walcott fights and both the Rocky Marciano ones.
If Ezzard Charles had beaten Jersey Joe Walcott three times (no fourth fight needed in that case) with a knockout or two in the mix, defeated Rocky Marciano twice, with at least one knockout, bested Joe Louis twice, with at least one knockout; and he would have needed to complete his career undefeated (start to finish). But, even then, a lot of people today would say he only beat bums, washed up over the hill guys, Cruiserweights, Light Heavies, and Middleweights ... and he was too small to compete with today's Super-Giants. I think there was no hope for Ezzard to become the GOAT, except possibly at Light Heavyweight.
I don't think it would take as much as most would think, actually. Most people seem to have Greb, Langford, Robinson and Armstrong as the 4 greatest ever, and a level or two above the rest. I think Charles belongs more with them than he does with someone like Ali, Duran or Benny Leonard, if he doesn't outright belong with them already. Has anyone in the history of the sport gone 3-0 against someone as great as Archie Moore ? Charles is completely and utterly unique in that regard. Has anybody else beaten the other possible GOAT of their division, much less 3 times ? He beat most of the best guys at Light Heavyweight that Moore beat as well, and went on to have an almost ATG worthy career at Heavyweight. 2 wins over Walcott and Marciano each are enough for me to possibly consider him the GOAT.
There were guys that beat him early on. He couldn't get past Ken Overlin in two tries and lost to some others. KO'ed by Lloyd Marshall early on. He wasn't unbeatable, (not disgrace as he wasn't losing to bums but still). Fighters like Robinson and Pep built up incredible records. Robinson lost only once early on to a larger fighter by a close decision, then went another 8 years and 93 fights before losing again. Pep had a similar record. That is insane considering the era, they were fighting more than once a month.
He's one of them, nothing more required. a definitive '1' is near impossible to be accurate about, as is 10, 25 or 100 even. ONE of them among 100s of GREATS!
If Charles had beaten Marciano then retired ( which he wouldn’t have ) it would have gone a long way. Also NOT picking up losses to Walcott and holding to the title longer would be helpful
My suspicion is had he beaten Marciano the discussions would center on not an enhanced greatness of Charles, but a knocking down of Marciano’s own status.
Had he beaten Harold Johnson and won the 3rd Walcott fight, edged Marciano in the first fight then retired after the second he'd be put a peg up in the rankings and would be in the GOAT convo imo. It would have also gone a good way in reducing the exacerbation of the debilitating ALS which plagued him post-career had he retired after the 2nd Marciano fight, but, unfortunately, this isn't how the great Ezzard's life played out.
That loss to Bivins during Bivins peak for the LHW duration title was pretty bad. Greats don't typically get beaten bad that badly that young.
