What did Calzaghe do to be considered as ATG?

i like hopkins but i dont see how he can be classed as an all time great! he made his name out of beating blown up fighters, de la hoya, tito, winky, he cleared up a terrible middle weight devision only had 2 average names at middle, when he has been in the ring with good fighters rjj, calzaghe, he lost. even taylor beat him twice, taylor has gone on to do nothing. pavlik has no skill at all so thats not a massive win and tarver is a joke,
hopkins lost his first fight and lost his 21 fight to a man who went on to have a pro record of 12 defeats and 1 win. before people think im a b hop hater im not i love the bloke his a modern day great and a class boxer. but can he honestly be classed as a atg?

 

Fair enough, I included Lopez basically because he completely cleaned house at 105 (admittedly a relatively weak division) and beat everyone who was anyone there (Alvarez, Guardia, Sanchez, Chareon, Tabanas, Villamor, Lin, Kittikasem, Sorjaturong, Ohashi. Some went on to have very good careers including Alvarez and Sorjaturong. He then went up to 108 and dominated Grigsby before beating two more world champs. It's his sheer level of dominance that does it for me, he beat everyone who was anyone and until he fought Alvarez had never even been challenged.

Not that I wouldn't have loved to see him move up earlier and fight Chiquita Gonzalez or Michael Carbajal mind...

 

Again, he;s cleaned house at middle, unifying all four belts and beating all the champions (Joppy, Holmes, Tito) and every contender who was anyone (Eastman, Echols, Allen etc...). He dominated that division for almost ten years beating everyone who was held up as a threat to his dominance and few of them were really competitive. After finally finding a fighter who had his number he then stepped up two weight classes and beat the linear champ at the age of 40-odd, beat a p4p fighter in his next bout and after the close loss to Calzaghe who is p4p top 3, whupped the ass of the next big thing and middleweight champ aged 43.

He also has wins over three sure fire hall of famers (DLH, Tito, Winky) and a wad of top contenders and champions. Plus he is still battering elite opposition in his mid 40s. Who else has done that? During his prime years he was unbeaten and even before and after that period his only losses were close decisions to p4p ranked fighters (forget that debut farce, the guy had never fought properly before).

I;m not really sure what the bit in bold is meant to mean. I'm no fan of his sourpuss personality or his recent ugly style, but his greatness is undisputed IMO.

 

[quote="TKO";3287878]Again, he;s cleaned house at middle, unifying all four belts and beating all the champions (Joppy, Holmes, Tito) and every contender who was anyone (Eastman, Echols, Allen etc...). He dominated that division for almost ten years beating everyone who was held up as a threat to his dominance and few of them were really competitive. After finally finding a fighter who had his number he then stepped up two weight classes and beat the linear champ at the age of 40-odd, beat a p4p fighter in his next bout and after the close loss to Calzaghe who is p4p top 3, whupped the ass of the next big thing and middleweight champ aged 43.

He also has wins over three sure fire hall of famers (DLH, Tito, Winky) and a wad of top contenders and champions. Plus he is still battering elite opposition in his mid 40s. Who else has done that? During his prime years he was unbeaten and even before and after that period his only losses were close decisions to p4p ranked fighters (forget that debut farce, the guy had never fought properly before).

I;m not really sure what the bit in bold is meant to mean. I'm no fan of his sourpuss personality or his recent ugly style, but his greatness is undisputed IMO.[/quote]


See what your saying when you actually put it on paper its hard to say he isnt an ATG. Cheers mate

 

What titles did he win at 175?

I don't count magazine belts when they aren't the linear title.

 

He's had a hell of a career as mentioned before, no matter how it gets sliced. If someone wants to argue between ranking him HOF or ATG, they're more than free to; even the former is quite an accomplishment, but it's a testament to Calzaghe's talent that so many people feel like he's underachieved even considering the following:

2 weight world champ
9-0 against future, current, or former champs
First man to unify the belts at 168, and the most accomplished fighter the young division has had.
14-0 against top 10 fighters
20 defenses
12 years as no lower than the top 2 ranked fighter by Ring in his weightclass, and holder of 2 ring championships simultaneously.

His top 5 wins, as I'd rank them, are Kessler, Hopkins, Lacy, Eubank, and Reid. That, and the consistency to keep winning even when he's not on his best in a sport where even the greats lose on an off night equals a solid Hall of Famer to me, who's closer to ATG level than fringe HOF level. He's also a ***** of a matchup for anyone at 168, as would be expected by those accomplishments.

 

Nicley put!

 

borderline resume:

- unbeaten in like ~50 fights
- 10 years unbeaten as a champion (WBO)
- beat 2 other ATG (past prime but who cares since he is no longer in his 20ties?)

its enough to be somewhere between top 70-80 ATG.

 

He isn't.....

 

If this post wasn't by you I would think it was a joke. Joe Calzaghe beat (allegedly) a 43-year-old Hopkins and slapped around the corpse of Roy Jones (also 40+), and won titles in one division and The Ring title in another. Pacquiao beat peak 29-year-old Barrera, 29-year-old Morales, and peak JMM, and has (so far) won titles in 5 divisions. Your brain is dead.

 

Why allegedly?? He got the call just like Manny did against JMM in what were also close fights.....you can't take actual victories away from guys just cos the fight was close, be that Calzaghe, Pacquiao, Berto etc etc

It's not like they were robberies

If Calzaghe had Manny's P4P power he would be a different animal and probably less frustrating to watch

 

Might as well close this thread, this guy has blown us out the water with the facts

 

By definition: no he's not.

 

I wasnt aware calzaghe had reached ATG...he's a middle of the road HOFer.

 

I believe Hopkins beat Calzaghe, so a rematch is called for IMO, as the existing decision doesn't deserve to be recognized in my eyes, that's why I personally do not recognize it.
I believe Marquez beat Pacquiao last time, I believe Pacquiao beat Marquez first time, so a rematch is called for IMO, as the existing decision for both fights don't deserve to be recognized in my eyes, that's why I personally do not recognize them.

If Calzaghe had Manny's p4p power he would indeed be a better fighter, but he doesn't.