What did Larry Holmes do better than Muhammad Ali?

Maybe, but nobody at welter could come close to jabbing with Hearns, only Ray Leonard could beat Hearns at welter cause he had a long reach too.

 

I'm reasonably partial to reach (for jabs) myself Mark, i don't at all subscribe to the numerous posts over the years saying reach means nothing when it comes to jabs. If you use the jab often and know how to throw it how can a big reach advantage not be an advantage? It's common sense. But you can certainly outjab people with minor reach disadvantage and some can outjab people with larger disadvantages. It's not a case where you look at the reach of two jabbers and come up with the better jabber. Would Valuev and Carnera outjab Holmes and Ali?

Hearns had as great a jab as I've ever seen. It was as multi faceted as jabs get. Now, you need to look again at your statement per Hearns and Leonard.

Leonard had a long reach? No, he did not. 70.5 inches. SRR had a longer reach, as did Marlon Starling, and Donald Curry and Milton McCrory and Felix Trinidad and Curtis Cokes and Luis Rodriguez and need i go on? Leonard's reach was average at best. Leonard beat Hearns in spite of his reach. Hearns pumped him round after round from the outside and Ray had to get inside to do much of anything.

Pertinent to the above - the reach advantage Hearns had over Leonard was 7.5 inches. The reach advantage Holmes had over Ali you are pointing out is 3 inches.

But wait, there's more. A surprising amount automatically assume, well Holmes jab is 3 inches longer than Ali's, that might make a difference. Reach is the entire wingspan and includes across the chest as well. That instantly drops the difference down to (roughly) 1.5 inches. Have a look on a tape measure what 1.5 inches is.

There's other factors involved as well which are just too minute to get into.

 

Some of that was on purpose. I posted the below in bold a while back. It was consciously decided by Holmes and Futch he'd start coming in heavier. He was in as good a shape as he could get into for Spinks II and weighed 223 which was basically as heavy as he ever got in that run. He knew he needed to be in top shape against Spinks after the first fight and was determined to get his title back. I would agree tho, for instance, that his 223 straight after Witherspoon against Scott Frank was different to his 223 in Spinks II, training effort wise. There's no way he trained overly hard for Frank.

It was age not weight. After the Witherspoon scare in which Holmes weighed 213 (Holmes believed his best weight was around 212 1/2) it was decided Holmes would never come in this light again. Futch pointed out as guys like Ali aged they had to give in to father time and come in a bit heavier as getting to their old best weight took a bit out of them. Holmes was at that age.

 

All the boxing stuff aside, Holmes was infinitely more grounded as a person and in far less need of acceptance/adulation. He was more inner-driven imo while Ali was more outer-driven … more of a people-pleaser.

Holmes didn’t want or need or allow himself to be the cash cow who keeps the circus rolling for a bunch of hanger-on-ers. He took care of himself and his family and didn’t open the checkbook to keep an entourage on the payroll. Kudos to Larry on that.

 

Excellent post regarding weighing more as you get older. Definitely much harder to take fat off the organs as you age.

 

Yes and the proof is irrefutable. Heavyweight greats almost all follow the same trend.

 

Ali had way more intrinsic motivation and self confidence than Holmes, did Ali refuse Vietnam and constantly ramble on about how great he is to please an audience or because he was speaking of things and engaging in actions that he truly believed in?

Holmes was better at not doing anything to be considered a cultural/historical hero

Ali taught Holmes his jab and in that regard without Ali Holmes wouldn't be anything at all

 

He was like a more orthodox version of Ali. I don't think he necessarily had a better jab, just different. He clearly had a better right uppercut, I don't think his straight right was any better. He was a way more intelligent fighter though and knew when and where to use his fundamentals. Ali just never had the same intelligence, he couldn't avoid the left hook of Frazier to save his life, Holmes was more crafty.

 

I might take a wild stab that fighting Gerry Cooney & Tim Witherspoon as your all-time best opponents beaten might’ve had something to do with that. Holmes would’ve been eaten alive by prime Frazier.

 

Ali had a little more talent than Holmes who was lacking nothing. Larry got a little more out of his ability. They had different situations but both were being robbed of their purses.
Difference being Larry Holmes paid attention to his $. He knew what Don King doing but he was stuck. Ali was seemingly unaware of the amount of $ Herbert was taking illegally.

That being said Larry had to be more serious. He didn't get his freedom until after the Cooney bout.

 

Larry was better at adult life. He was a better businessman and understood the physical and financial realities of boxing better than Ali. No one was smarter about using boxing to fashion out the rest of their life than he and as a result was a true "professional" in every sense of the word. Ali was a "mark" for fame and attention and thus was a "mark" for the business too as a result.

In the ring, I think Holmes was more focused strategically. Ali played around believing he could always turn it on whenever.

 

I'm pretty sure Leonard had at least a 74" reach.

 

Leonard had a 74 in (188 cm) reach, you could see he had long arms.

 

It's not just a matter of eating too much. It's what you eat. We don't hear enough about boxers and their diets. I doubt many of them ever consulted a nutritionist but one thing we know about Holmes is he liked his burgers juicy.

 

Flying kicks from stationary cars?